Trying to make a wiring harness

[Mudrig150 298]

So I'm setting up the design of my wiring harness for my 317 with a Magnum 18. The wiring harness diagram I'm using this tractor off of is very confusing. 

A few questions.

Does the oil sentry ground when it loses oil pressure? Can I just hook it straight to the coil to ground?

The original tractor has the voltage regulator hooked straight to the circuit breaker and into the solenoid post. Will this work in the tractor?

Thinking of hooking the Hour meter off the charging circuit so it only goes up when the engine is running. Can I do this?

Edited October 14, 2019 by Mudrig150

[953 nut 51,510]

 

Here is a basic wiring diagram for a Magneto ignition system using a 103-991 ignition switch. It is not for a particular tractor and is drawn to let you see how the components interact with each other. Hope this helps.

[Tractorhead 8,571]

@Mudrig150

if you Engine has the capability for an Oilpressuresensor, this will be a easy option, to Attach the Hourmeter.

 

 

 

it depends on oilsensor, i know two types, normally open and normally closed.

you can test your Sensor with a multimeter in setup Ohm.

 

if you can measure between the tip and ground close to 0 ohms, you have a normally closed version.

 

it depends on what kind of sensor you have, if a normally closed sensor is in, you need a relay

to invert the signal ,

On relay coil 85 goes to terminal A on Keyswitch and 86 goes to oilpressuresensor tip.

the Terminal A on Keyswitch must be connected with a fuse to Relay 30 and was in 12 V

and 87a was the line out to your hourmeter + Terminal.

the groundline on hourmeter goes to Ground

 

if your sensor shows open range you have an normally open sensor,

this it is much simpler to attach.

Connect Positive Port with a Fuse to Batteryswitch (Terminal A) and the Negative to the Oilpressuresensor.

 

added parallel to the hourmeter a Bulb or a led, so you have an simple oilpressure control.

The LED will light as long as the ignition is on and Engine is running.

 

 

So the Hourmeter just starts if Oilpressure is given and Ignition is on.

That means it starts definitely only if Engine is running.

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by Tractorhead
Correct

[Mudrig150 298]

@Tractorhead Yes, the oil sentry is ground, and normally closed. When you put pressure to it the switch opens and the ground is cut off.

[Tractorhead 8,571]

Then you can use the Simple Version for Oil Control, means A control bulb one end to +12V and the other side to 

tip of the Oilsensor.

 

means if you use a red  Control light ( i.eg a red LED) as warning light,

if engine runs and oil pressure is ok, 

than the controllight goes off.

 

for your hour meter:

the simplest option will be a Standard 5 Pin Automotive Relay,  

 

put pin 86 from relay to +12V (Port A on your Ignition Switch) protected with a 7,5 A Automotive Fuse.

put pin 85 from relay to Oilsensor, that will act the Relay just in case ignition is powered on.

put pin 30 from relay to pin 86 of relay together, to get power for the Hourmeter.

put pin 87a from relay to your positive Terminal on hourmeter

put negative terminal on your Hourmeter to Ground or negative Battery Terminal.(both must be same potential)

 

that act as follow:

switch ignition on, relay coil acts as long as Engine has no Oilpressure,

while 87a on Relay just act if Relay is off, it just bring a short impulse (about 200msec.) after Acting of your Relay

to hourmeter.

 

if you start now the Engine, the oilpressure increases, the swith openes and relay stop working.

whilst ignition is on, pin 30 will be powered to 12V and pin 87a start you hourmeter as long as the Engine runs.

 

if you want it in a longterm Way, i suggest to use a diode provided or resistor provided relay, what supresses the Coilvoltage,

if the oilpressureswitch opened.

 

some led‘s can not handle the overvoltage of a relay, what can be up to 80V as an impulse while powerloss.

( magnetic induction Voltage)

 

hope i described good enough.

 

[Mudrig150 298]

Cub cadets have the hour meter hooked off the charging system. But Cubs only have I think a 10 amp charging system.

[Mudrig150 298]

How's this look?

[pfrederi 17,125]

Not sure about running the regulator output  (15 amps) through an hour meter.  why not run the hour meter somewhere off the load (acc) term of the ignition switch.

Edited October 21, 2019 by pfrederi

[Mudrig150 298]

7 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Not sure about running the regulator output  (15 amps) through an hour meter.  why not run the hour meter somewhere off the load (acc) term of the ignition switch.

Well that's the problem. I want it to only run when the engine itself is running. if I do it off the oil sentry I'm pretty sure I'll not be able to hook the oil sentry up to act as a kill. As stated, Cub cadets had the hour meter hooked to the stator output with no issues.

[953 nut 51,510]

From the looks of the CC diagram the hour meter is connected to the "A" terminal, the switch they use has no "R" terminal which is where the charging system on a  connects to the ignition switch..

[Tractorhead 8,571]

1 hour ago, Mudrig150 said:

How's this look?

This will not work.

 

why? 

You set the Hourmeter in line between regulator and Switch to battery, what woudn‘t work.

The hourmeters i know, have a positive and a negative terminal and should not connected vice versa.

They are also not capable to distribute the Charging Current, what can be up to 10 or 15 Amps.

 

This schematic won‘t work, no charging and maybe a defect Hourmeter

[Mudrig150 298]

5 hours ago, Tractorhead said:

This will not work.

 

why? 

You set the Hourmeter in line between regulator and Switch to battery, what woudn‘t work.

The hourmeters i know, have a positive and a negative terminal and should not connected vice versa.

They are also not capable to distribute the Charging Current, what can be up to 10 or 15 Amps.

 

This schematic won‘t work, no charging and maybe a defect Hourmeter

Well darn.

[ZXT 2,394]

52 minutes ago, Mudrig150 said:

Well darn.

I'm trying to think up how you could use the charging system to trigger a relay to make the hour meter work, but I'm not sure there's a way.

 

In your diagram, you essentially have your hour meter hooked to the battery... which means it would run constantly.

 

I'd just hook it to keyed power and call it a day. It's just an hour meter.. If you don't go around leaving the key on all the time, it shouldn't make enough difference to matter.

[Mudrig150 298]

9 hours ago, ZXT said:

I'm trying to think up how you could use the charging system to trigger a relay to make the hour meter work, but I'm not sure there's a way.

 

In your diagram, you essentially have your hour meter hooked to the battery... which means it would run constantly.

 

I'd just hook it to keyed power and call it a day. It's just an hour meter.. If you don't go around leaving the key on all the time, it shouldn't make enough difference to matter.

Well, I'd have to add a diode anyway to keep the battery from backfeeding into the charging system. Maybe that'd make it work?

[ZXT 2,394]

1 hour ago, Mudrig150 said:

Well, I'd have to add a diode anyway to keep the battery from backfeeding into the charging system. Maybe that'd make it work?

I don't believe so - and I'm not sure how the battery could "backfeed" into the charging system.. it's directly connected to it.

 

You'd have to come off of one of the legs of the stator to trigger a relay, since that's the only place on the tractor that wouldn't have voltage unless it was running (i believe) but that's AC voltage and won't work with a typical 4 pin DC relay. 

[Mudrig150 298]

21 minutes ago, ZXT said:

I don't believe so - and I'm not sure how the battery could "backfeed" into the charging system.. it's directly connected to it.

 

You'd have to come off of one of the legs of the stator to trigger a relay, since that's the only place on the tractor that wouldn't have voltage unless it was running (i believe) but that's AC voltage and won't work with a typical 4 pin DC relay. 

Here's what everyone says. Don't  quote me on this:

When not running, the battery pushes voltage back through the charging system, which seeps out into the block and is lost. That's why a lot of tractors have a diode on the charging wire. It's also to prevent you from ruining the stator with too much voltage, I believe.

Also diodes help direct the current.

 

I was thinking of the way tractorhead was saying to do it, but I realized that the Oil sentry grounds when there's no oil pressure.

 

Might just hook it to a seperate wire that comes off the charging wire with a smaller 5 amp drop down resistor.

[Mudrig150 298]

Figured out the design flaw. I goofed up, and I accidentally put the charging wire to the B terminal (always connected to battery) when it's supposed to be on the L terminal (only connects when key is in the run position). That explains a lot and is why the original diagram for the snapper didn't have an R terminal or a diode...

[Tractorhead 8,571]

So, did it.

 

Here is the Complete Wireing as i did in my Tractor.

As Suggested and one Year approoved.

 

The 2 Master Gimmicks are:

1.) The Hourmeter just runn's if engine is running and the Oilpressure is up ( also shown on Oil Control Lamp).

2.) The Seatswitch doesn't interrupts staring, it interrupts the PTO and optional the Ignition, selectable by the Switch.

 

If you are Mowing, and you must short standup for remove a thing. the PTO is allway's automatically stopped for Safety,

but the tractorengine is optional able to continouse run with the Optional Switch.

 

A Restart of the Engine depends mostly more time than just shift the Neutral in.

IF the Option Switch is in "Active Mode" also the Engine will be shutdown if Seatswitch is Activated.

In my Case this was the best solution until now.

[MikMacMike 479]

On 10/21/2019 at 10:39 AM, Mudrig150 said:

Cub cadets have the hour meter hooked off the charging system. But Cubs only have I think a 10 amp charging system.

Ahhhhh excellent, I been pulling my hair out trying to figure wiring. N im bald .

[peter lena 8,035]

mudrig150, in addition to redoing your wire harness , you could use the opportunity to enhance and build in wire protection with this , https://www.amazon.com/s?k=wire+spiral+wrap&gclid=Cj0KCQiAovfvBRCRARIsADEmbRJRMqKFXLgO-XdIzfoN_TNdXf1C97x0EDb8jCMu1-1lVGBxFL_cYS0aArdwEALw_wcB&hvadid=174250414685&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9003310&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=b&hvrand=8871138045417823177&hvtargid=aud-840076997981%3Akwd-595774755&hydadcr=24659_9648993&tag=googhydr-20&ref=pd_sl_vez8jz9bp_b  this wire wrap will eliminate chafing , i would also change routing to make it better.  use DIELECTRIC GREASE at every connection and fitting for zero connection issues.  i did my harness in pieces , getting the worst first , and rerouting the rest , for a no friction fit, good luck with it . also wire in your battery tender plug in ,for quick access and use, pete 

[MikMacMike 479]

1 hour ago, peter lena said:

mudrig150, in addition to redoing your wire harness , you could use the opportunity to enhance and build in wire protection with this , https://www.amazon.com/s?k=wire+spiral+wrap&gclid=Cj0KCQiAovfvBRCRARIsADEmbRJRMqKFXLgO-XdIzfoN_TNdXf1C97x0EDb8jCMu1-1lVGBxFL_cYS0aArdwEALw_wcB&hvadid=174250414685&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9003310&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=b&hvrand=8871138045417823177&hvtargid=aud-840076997981%3Akwd-595774755&hydadcr=24659_9648993&tag=googhydr-20&ref=pd_sl_vez8jz9bp_b  this wire wrap will eliminate chafing , i would also change routing to make it better.  use DIELECTRIC GREASE at every connection and fitting for zero connection issues.  i did my harness in pieces , getting the worst first , and rerouting the rest , for a no friction fit, good luck with it . also wire in your battery tender plug in ,for quick access and use, pete 

Yuppers I mostly work on so many gm cars and chevy Trackers I have a good collection of factory corrigated coatings I always wrap with, as for the 2 stator and the trigger wire for the ignition I use woodstove door gasket coated with high temp silicon to protect the wries....and as for die/electric grease if its not coated on all joints one might as well just forget wireing all together heheheheh. Right now I am just using all old wire I have kicking around, but I did buy a number of roles to copy what I am putting now. Its all trial fit, making sure all works proper then I remove ols and copy with new.....I dont mind electrical but Id rather be forming, machining, or customising metal parts hahahah.