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adsm08

Starer issues after rebuild

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adsm08

OK, yesterday I replaced all the guts in my S/G unit, ID tag says its a Delco-Remy 1101973.

 

Before it would work, but cranked somewhat slowly and couldn't keep the battery fully charged. Now It doesn't really work at all, it does crank, very slowly, very labored, and only turns the engine over a few times before becoming stuck.

 

It does feel notchy when turning by hand, so I need to go back in and check that the new bearings are OK and that the armature isn't catching anything, but if all that checks out is there a possibility that I have the polarity of one coil backwards, or do they need to be polarized?

 

I found @rmaynard 's about rebuilding one on an 856, but all the links to manuals and such were dead, and Photo-suckit had blurred all the pictures. I did take pictures before I started, but never looked at them before disassembly, only to find that the auto-focus on my camera focused on the middle of the case and in doing so blurred the areas I needed to see.

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pfrederi

As I understand it one field coil handles charging the other cranking (but with some help from the charging coil).  The cranking coil does not supplement the charging action. They are wired differently but that is beyond my knowledge  (I take mine to a specialist) Polarization should not be necessary as it happens every time you try to crank the engine as you are applying battery voltage to the A terminal of the Genny.

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adsm08

OK, so I appear to have a resolution, and much quicker than with my last problem. 

 

I have to question the idea that the each coil only handles one side of operation (starting or charging) as they appear to be wired in series, with the A and F posts each attaching to one field coil, and the other end of each coil being connected to each other. That is a series circuit, and so they both have to be on or off together. However, it does appear that the coils are not interchangeable, and it also seems to matter which brush they are attached to. 

 

I took it all back apart, mostly to check the bearings and see if I had something binding, but also to check if my wiring of the coils matched the old ones, and it did. I used a filter on my fuzzy photo to make it a photo negative of itself, and that allowed me to see more detail, although it made me think harder about what I was looking at. It appeared that I had the coils on opposite sides from where the ones with the same connectors went originally. I put it all back together after switching the locations of the two coils in the case, and made sure to attach them to the brush closer to the A terminal, which is what my before picture showed.

 

This time when I got it all together the armature rotated smoothly and freely, not notchy and stiff like before, and it fires the tractor right up. It still isn't charging correctly, however now I can ground the F terminal and the charge gauge goes to 30, and the light goes out, which did not happen before. So now I know that my rebuild of the starter/generator is good, and my new voltage regulator is not.

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pfrederi

Great news!!

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ebinmaine

Definitely heading the right direction

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adsm08

I opened up the regulator, which is only a week old, and found the connection from the F terminal's inside post up to the tab that moves to close the circuit had burnt open, likely a casualty of yesterday's bench testing prior to installing the starter and testing it on the tractor.

 

The wire in question was just a single large strand wrapped around two posts and soldered in place. I unsoldered it and made a replacement section from some similar gauge wire I had laying around. I wrapped and soldered my new section, trimmed the ends a bit to prevent unwanted contacts with potential grounds, and reinstalled the regulator for retest. Here is a crappy picture of my repair, after I already installed the regulator, it's the copper and solder wire in the lower left.

 

 

5k9sQJu.jpg

 

I am now charging at 15 amps and my generator light is out, so I'm gonna say it works. I'd encourage anyone who had a bad regulator to check this connection before replacing it. Took about 30 minutes to fix, instead of a week for a new unit to come in.

 

I think this was the last real functional issue on this tractor, and so I finally feel like I am getting somewhere with it. I've spent the last month trying to get ready for cold weather to hit, and this tractor just kept breaking, as soon as I got one thing dealt with something else broke. Now the hydro pump works, the plow pivots, the charging system is fixed, next I'm going to order tires and chains, and look at building some sort of hitch carrier to add weight to.

Edited by adsm08
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bc.gold

My old Kohler with a Lister diesel is started by the large generator, during the war when copper was called to duty Lincoln welders used for ship building were magneto equipped with out a starter.

 

One welder in the fleet would be quipped with electric starter, after this first machine was running the operator would pass the welding leads over to the next machine, power from the leads was fed into the generator terminals which in turn would now perform as a starter.

 

Two brush generators will also act as motors, not sure of a three brush generator will.

 

three.jpg

 

 

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bc.gold

Imagine that a fusible link.

 

5k9sQJu.jpg

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adsm08
1 minute ago, bcgold said:

Imagine that a fusible link.

 

5k9sQJu.jpg

I don't know if the original was supposed to be a fusible link or not, but if it was I basically just turned the exterior wire, which I can see and repair more easily, into the fuse link.

 

If I knew what the amp rating on this line was supposed to be I'd just put an actual fuse in the exterior line.

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ebinmaine
2 hours ago, adsm08 said:

actual fuse

When I rebuilt the wiring on Trina's 867 I put a 20 amp? Fuse into the circuit that goes for the regulator and a 60 or 80 amp maxi fuse into the battery cable line. Just a couple pieces of cheap insurance that old tractors weren't built with.

I can get pics tomorrow if you like.

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adsm08
24 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

When I rebuilt the wiring on Trina's 867 I put a 20 amp? Fuse into the circuit that goes for the regulator and a 60 or 80 amp maxi fuse into the battery cable line. Just a couple pieces of cheap insurance that old tractors weren't built with.

I can get pics tomorrow if you like.

 

Sure. 

 

My ammeter usually dwells around 15 amps, so 20 should be plenty. Technically the fuse holders I have aren't rated for more than 2 amps by the part manufacturer, however, that is Ford Motor Company, and they also don't seem to know that a fuse on the positive side and a fuse on the negative side of the same circuit does not give double protection, nor do they seem aware that the fuses in these holders I have scavenged are serviceable, since the part comes with a big old sticker that says "contains non-serviceable internal fuse".

 

I've been using these do-dads for years running circuits that are fused at 15 amps and haven't lit anything on fire yet.

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