10" or 12" stock wheels for 312-8?

[DadsPuller 36]

Hi gang! Great website forum and super informative!!

 

I recently purchased a solid 312-8 w/ a great running 12hp engine that I'm in the process of converting into a puller for my 2 daughters to run in the IGTPA stock altered class. I want to upgrade the factory skinny rear wheels to a wider stock wheel so I can hang either a a set of 23 x 10.50 x 12 or 23 x 12 x 12 tractor tire shoes on it. 

 

I've searched around here to find the answer without success, so I'd thought I would ask if anyone knows what wheel I need to get that fits this thing to mount those tire choices? Anyone have a set for sale? BTW- I don't want to go w/ aftermarket aluminum - I'd rather stick with stock steel stuff.

 

Thank you in advance! :-)

 

- Dad

[roadapples 6,981]

If you want to stay with stock wheels you'll need 8 1/2" wheels for the 23x10.50 12's...

[ebinmaine 62,973]

 

I agree with Mr Apples.

We don't pull on the track but we pull heavy stuff quite a bit.

I have 8.5" rims with 10.5" Carlisle AGS.

 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,369]

Tire brand also dictates ACTUAL tire size as to what's printed on the side walls... 1st pic 23x10.50-12 Deestone on 7" (300 series) rims or 2cd pic same size Lawn Trac R1 on 8.5" 520 wheels.

[Achto 26,505]

9 hours ago, DadsPuller said:

I want to upgrade the factory skinny rear wheels to a wider stock wheel so I can hang either a a set of 23 x 10.50 x 12 or 23 x 12 x 12 tractor tire shoes on it. 

 

23 x 10.50 x 12's will fit on the rims that you have, but there will be some side wall bulge. This will cause some loss of contact to the ground. 8.5" wide rims will work better for this size tire. I would suggest looking for a set of rims from a  520 to fit this bill.

 

I don't think that they make a tire in a 23 x 12 x 12.

26 x 12 x 12 is a common size and the max size allowed at most GT pulls. A 26 x 12 x 12 tire calls for a 10.5" wide rim, for pulling a 12" wide rim would work even better. 

Rim options for 10.5" wide rims

1. Find a set of rims from a Cub Cadet 982 or other super Cub

2. Buy the blanks and centers from https://www.millertire.com/categories/wheels-by-size/ and weld them together.

3. Take four 7.5" wide rims, cut them apart, weld the pieces together to make two rims the width that you need.I did this option on one of my tractors to get 11.5" wide rims.

 

If you want 12" wide rims you will either have to go with aluminum rims or make your own like I did.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Achto

[Super-C 4 me 612]

I just picked up a set of Deestone 26x12x12

I already have a set of Carlisle tru-power 26x12x12

big difference in size

Left side is Carlisle 

Right side is Deestone

 

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Super-C 4 me

[DadsPuller 36]

Wow - You guys are AWESOME!

 

This is great info and now I have something to work with to figure out a game plan. I figured I'd try to get the widest tire back there w/in the rules for traction, since it wil be my 9 and 11 year old daughters pulling with this thing and they don't weigh much! LoL!

 

I did see a pic above where "WVHillbilly520H" was using weight rings on the INSIDE of the wheel also - which is probably what I'm going to have to do to get this thing as close to 1050 lbs. as I can. 

 

I'll post pics of what I did and how I did it....this is gonna be fun! Thanks for your input - much appreciated!

[Achto 26,505]

How rude of me, I forgot to give you a   to

 

27 minutes ago, DadsPuller said:

I did see a pic above where "WVHillbilly520H" was using weight rings on the INSIDE of the wheel also - which is probably what I'm going to have to do to get this thing as close to 1050 lbs. as I can. 

 

Weight is important, don't forget to figure some weight for the front end of the tractor. You don't want the front end coming up too high on them. Wheel weights work well but it seems like most of the pullers in my area prefer to have hanging weight instead.

[ebinmaine 62,973]

Depending on class and rules you may also be able to fluid fill your tires but that is obviously not easy to get on and off of the tractor like hanging weights are.

 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,369]

OTR Lawn Trac has those AGs like mine in 24x12-12... https://www.outdoortire.com/product/24x12-00-12-4ply-tubeless-otr-lawn-trac-r1-lug-tires/    Also those inside weights are Cub Cadet about 25-30# each...

Edited September 26, 2019 by WVHillbilly520H

[DadsPuller 36]

2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Depending on class and rules you may also be able to fluid fill your tires but that is obviously not easy to get on and off of the tractor like hanging weights are.

 

From what I've read, they don't specify either way, but I'd probably lean toward removable weights just for simplicity and less mess over liquid.

[DadsPuller 36]

1 hour ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

OTR Lawn Trac has those AGs like mine in 24x12-12... https://www.outdoortire.com/product/24x12-00-12-4ply-tubeless-otr-lawn-trac-r1-lug-tires/    Also those inside weights are Cub Cadet about 25-30# each...

Those look AWESOME and just might be what I'll get! The extra inch in height over the 23's should improve the stance a bit too.

 

Thanks!

[ebinmaine 62,973]

1 hour ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

OTR Lawn Trac has those AGs like mine in 24x12-12... https://www.outdoortire.com/product/24x12-00-12-4ply-tubeless-otr-lawn-trac-r1-lug-tires/    Also those inside weights are Cub Cadet about 25-30# each...

Hey Jeff. Thanks for posting that. I'll check out their site to see if I can find some tires for Colossus.

 

[ebinmaine 62,973]

4 minutes ago, DadsPuller said:

lean toward removable weights just for simplicity and less mess

IIFF it's done correctly and you don't have any leaks there will never be any mess with the liquid.

Now that said, I agree with the simplicity. Definitely easier to manage the wait for whatever classes you want to run in by adding or removing steel.

 

The advantages that some of us believe liquid has over solid weights are that the liquid is constantly pushing out on the bead of the tire which if anything helps it keep seated. I don't personally get too concerned about losing a bead seat because I run tubes.

Also, the liquid is pushing down directly on the rubber and literally pinching the rubber right to the surface that you're driving on.

 

Just some food for thought there.

 

[Achto 26,505]

3 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Just some food for thought there

 

3 hours ago, DadsPuller said:

I'd probably lean toward removable weights just for simplicity and less mess over liquid.

 

Principles on tire fliud or wheel weights are a bit different on pulling tractors. While fluid works great on a working class tractor it does not work as well on a pulling tractor. Most pulling tracks are a relatively hard surface and fluid changes the way that the tire bites into the track. Even tire compound makes a difference, one would think that a softer compound would bite better but it is just the opposite. The edges of a soft compound tire will actually fold when they make contact with the ground instead of digging into the ground. In stock farm class pulling we look for old tires that have hardened due to time & weather. Some competition pulling tires will under go a hardening process before the end user will mount them on to his/her tractor.

 

Here is a good source to read up on GT pulling tips & tricks.http://gardentractorpullingtips.com/index.htm   

[WVHillbilly520H 10,369]

Check out this thread... 

 

[Spareparts 84]

Achto is absoluty right, Adjustible weight bar in front and under belly weight bar in front of rear tires, you want the front end to lift a little, 2"-to 3" is just about right, it transfers the weight to the rear tires

and you actually guide the tractor by leaning one side to the other, lean the direction the tractor is going. That loads the rear tire on that side giving it more traction and it changes direction. I use the barbell weights from Wal-Mart with the 1" bore, and use 1" bar thru brackets welded to the frame in front of rear tires and square tubing 2" OD  welded lengthwise in the center of the frame for the front weight bar with a 1 1/2" square tube slid inside for the adjustable front weight bar. More later if you want. I do things simple and cost effective.

[DadsPuller 36]

3 hours ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

Check out this thread... 

 

That is AWESOME and looks nearly exactly what I'm after! I'm definitely using the OTR 24" x 12" x 12" tires you guys suggested above. They look awesome and appear to be HD from the specs provided by OTR.

 

That said, the only thing I'm doing a bit different, is that I'm fabbing a custom set of wheels using the M.E. Miller 12" x 10.5" rim blanks ( 12 x 10.5 Rim Blank ) and re-using the stock center discs I already have to re-weld into them. The only spec I still need is the rear offset # of the stock 520 wheels, so I can transfer that to my stuff. Then I should still be able to use the inside and outside wheel weights. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by DadsPuller

[roadapples 6,981]

Backset should be approximately 1 3/8"

[Spareparts 84]

I set the offset so the tire has only about 1" to 1 1/2" clearance on the frame, the center disc are almost centered, my reason for this is it is easier to steer the tractor with your body weight

 the narrower the tread width is, and easier to pick your line. 

[Achto 26,505]

8 hours ago, Spareparts said:

 the narrower the tread width is, and easier to pick your line. 

 

This theory also helps to keep the rear end differential from unloading on one side or the other. The farther a part that your wheels are the easier it is for one side to slip on the diff. Even on my farm pulling tractor, I have the rear wheels set as close together as I can. 

 

Besides safety, which is most important. Another reason for keeping the front end down on the tractor. When the front of your tractor comes up your hitch height goes down, decreasing the up pull on the front of the sled. Pulling up on the front of the sled gives you an advantage, this is why there are maximum hitch height rules. I try to balance my tractor so that the front wheels just tickle the ground through most of the pull. Good weight transfer to the rear wheels, without giving up hitch height. Getting your hitch as close as rules will allow to the rear axle will also help keep your hitch height when the front end comes up.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Achto

[DadsPuller 36]

Fantastic info guys - MUCH appreciated!

 

I will be removing the entire under-seat fuel tank from this rig, so I'll have extra leeway on how close I can position the inner edge of the tire in relation to the chassis. I see where the manufacturer tucks the factory tire about 3/4 of the way under the fender to presumably keep them close together - which certainly makes what you've said about wheel placement make sense.

 

That said, should I follow that trend also when I position these wheels and center discs before I weld them?

 

 

[Achto 26,505]

8 hours ago, DadsPuller said:

 

That said, should I follow that trend also when I position these wheels and center discs before I weld them?

 

This would be my suggestion.

 

I would go with the spacing that @Spareparts suggested.

18 hours ago, Spareparts said:

I set the offset so the tire has only about 1" to 1 1/2" clearance on the frame, the center disc are almost centered

 

[Spareparts 84]

Check out this site http://gardentractorpullingtips.com/intro.htm a lot of good info from beginning startup to all out pulling

shows how to build hitches, weight brackets,weight placement, and just about everything you watn to know. If you have a club you will be pulling

with get their rules and read them carefully, then read between the lines, Gray area.

[DadsPuller 36]

1 hour ago, Achto said:

 

This would be my suggestion.

 

I would go with the spacing that @Spareparts suggested.

 

We'll do!