953 nut 58,188 #26 Posted October 6, 2019 If it were mine I would mount an electric fuel pump low on the frame and feed it through the one on the carburetor. Plug off the vacuum line at the engine and fuel pump. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZXT 2,401 #27 Posted October 6, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, 953 nut said: If it were mine I would mount an electric fuel pump low on the frame and feed it through the one on the carburetor. Plug off the vacuum line at the engine and fuel pump. I still don't see how that would solve his issue. He said if he sticks the supply line in a bottle of gas It'll pick the fuel up and run. That tells me there's a supply issue. Paul, have you done what Garry suggested? If you haven't, pull the line off at the fuel filter and open the fuel shutoff valve to see if you have a steady flow of gravity fed fuel. That'll tell you if there is a blockage at the valve. I'm really leaning towards that being your issue. If it'll suck fuel out of a bottle and run, it should be able to do the same with the tank.. that is unless there's a blockage. Edited October 6, 2019 by ZXT Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Boy 31 #28 Posted October 13, 2019 Been working on other outdoor chores and have spent a short time trying to solve the issue with this opposed twin. I pulled the line off the fuel filter and opened the fuel shutoff valve and I do have a steady flow of gravity fed fuel. Which valve would you suspect the blockage would be? How do I go about fixing a blockage? I am about ready to cover this up for the winter. I've considered ordering an electric fuel pump as a last resort. once again, its a 16 hp Briggs and Stratton opposed twin so what would you suggest for an electric fuel pump that would work with this setup? I really need some help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 58,188 #29 Posted October 14, 2019 On 10/6/2019 at 10:12 AM, ZXT said: He said if he sticks the supply line in a bottle of gas It'll pick the fuel up and run. No, he said Will run fine while being gravity fed but refuses to run but a few seconds when hooked to either fuel pump. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZXT 2,401 #30 Posted October 14, 2019 On 9/25/2019 at 5:12 PM, Paul Boy said: I took a bit of gas and put it into a bottle. Closed off the gas line from the tank, dropped hose into bottle and tried again. Started right up and ran until I shut it down. Its there a screen somewhere in the only line that I didn't replace? @953 nut This is what I was referencing. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Boy 31 #31 Posted October 14, 2019 Decided to pull the gas tank today and see if there was something there. Did find a screen at the under tank shutoff seemed very clogged up. The gas that I drained out appeared to be an orange color. Thought that a bit strange. Now I am stuck as I need a new shutoff valve as the one I tried to jimmyrig, leaked. So went ahead and ordered a new part #104048. Will be the end of the week before I get it so if tomorrow is a good day I will put the fuel pump back together and wait it out. If thIs attempt fails I may try an electronic fuel pump as I am just not sure what is really going on with this. Does anyone have another idea? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 58,188 #32 Posted October 15, 2019 13 hours ago, Paul Boy said: The gas that I drained out appeared to be an orange color. That could have been your problem all along. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pullstart 64,794 #33 Posted October 15, 2019 I recently rebuilt a Briggs fuel pump like you have there. I used a YouTube video as a guide, because when I pulled mine apart there were no parts inside to reference. Those little springs are a bugger, did you get both of them in correctly? The guy guy in the video is a little rough, but informative. Around 6-12 minutes I think was where I watched so many times. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pullstart 64,794 #34 Posted October 15, 2019 I forgot to mention, I’m not sure how well that pump would do with the pressure of an electric pump behind it. There are vent holes that can’t be completely sealed on the external and vacuum sides of the pump and if the diaphragm were to tear or burst, you could fill the crank case or shoot fuel out the side of the pump externally. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tractorhead 9,099 #35 Posted October 15, 2019 Did you try it without the Fueltank cap? Maybe worse ventilation was a Problem instead of the Fuelpump. as long as i understand, you try the fuel out of a bottle, what works. at Fueltank it wan‘t work. just a try Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil902 70 #36 Posted October 16, 2019 12 hours ago, pullstart said: Pullstart said: "I recently rebuilt a Briggs fuel pump like you have there. I used a YouTube video as a guide, because when I pulled mine apart there were no parts inside to reference. Those little springs are a bugger, did you get both of them in correctly? " I am dealing with the same carb right now . I'm about to start a new thread regarding my issue, which is similar but different. BUT meanwhile, FYI, I purchased a Briggs fuel pump kit which was perfect. When it didn't solve my problem, I purchased a carb kit like the one referenced in the YouTube video. One of those little springs was missing, and the one that was included didn't fit over either peg. The idle valve screw wasn't threaded the same, and the diaphragms were nowhere near as robust as the Briggs kit supplied. Buyer beware. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Boy 31 #37 Posted October 16, 2019 That would be the way it seems to work. I've got a few days before the shutoff arrives so I am going to go over everything again. Rain here late tomorrow so hope to be able to get to it early. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pullstart 64,794 #38 Posted October 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, Phil902 said: I am dealing with the same carb right now . I'm about to start a new thread regarding my issue, which is similar but different. BUT meanwhile, FYI, I purchased a Briggs fuel pump kit which was perfect. When it didn't solve my problem, I purchased a carb kit like the one referenced in the YouTube video. One of those little springs was missing, and the one that was included didn't fit over either peg. The idle valve screw wasn't threaded the same, and the diaphragms were nowhere near as robust as the Briggs kit supplied. Buyer beware. My springs were very fine, they ended up being intertwined and took a bunch of patience to separate them with no hiccups. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil902 70 #39 Posted October 16, 2019 Paul Boy, if you still have the front tins on the tractor, right beside the front spark plug, next to the oil fill, there should be model, type, and code numbers stamped in the tin. If it's been painted over, some solvent and elbow grease may expose them. Do you know the model or year of the Horse? Mine is a 1979 C-161 Hydro, with the Briggs opposed twin, model 402417, type 1021 01. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill D 2,105 #40 Posted October 16, 2019 Check the crankcase vacuum line between the pump on the carb and the block. Replace it new line. Also make sure none of the plastic fittings on the pump body are cracked. That pump works better than the one on my Kohler. That fitting could be part of your problem for sure. Bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sebringwh 1 #41 Posted October 16, 2019 I replaced my old non-functioning fuel pump with a new electric fuel pump( 16 hp single cyl. Kohler). Lots of trial and error trying to regulate fuel pressure that didn't work. NAPA sells, and I bought , a fuel pressure regulator , graduated from 1 - 5 #s configured in a round base and a dial with an arrow that points to the #s selected. 1 1/2 #s works fine for mine. One advantage of the electric fuel pump is that the engine does not have to running to see if it pumping and how good a fuel stream it is providing. However a new electric fuel pump and regulator is not cheap, looking at $100 bucks. YRMV 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,272 #42 Posted October 16, 2019 Did you remove the valve from the tanK? Is there a filter on the valve inside the tank? Sorry - missed the 2nd page of this thread. I would suggest you remove the tank and flush with hot water and detergent. Let it sit in the sun to help dry it out. If you don't do it the sludge will contaminate the filter on the new valve. A short length of light chain tossed in will help scrub the inside surfaces and easy to fish back out after. Save what you remove from the tank so you can see just how bad it was. Garry 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Boy 31 #43 Posted October 16, 2019 I have the the numbers from the front tins and they are as follows. Model 401417 Type 0130101 Code 780424112. I was told when I bought it that it was a 78 or 79 Wheel Horse C-161. A previous owner had welded some heavy wire over the front of an older model hood and fitted it up with a blower I have the original 161 black hood that was originally on it but felt that this setup was a better fit for what I want to use this for. I had not thought about using hot water and detergent and had washed it out with clean gasoline. I will try the soap and water clean out as I have a few days before the new valve arrives. Thanks for all of the suggestions. Sure do appreciate it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,272 #44 Posted October 16, 2019 Your engine was used in 1978 and 1979. Tractor data plate could be in one of two places. Garry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZXT 2,401 #45 Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) On 10/14/2019 at 4:56 PM, Paul Boy said: Decided to pull the gas tank today and see if there was something there. Did find a screen at the under tank shutoff seemed very clogged up. The gas that I drained out appeared to be an orange color. Thought that a bit strange. Now I am stuck as I need a new shutoff valve as the one I tried to jimmyrig, leaked. So went ahead and ordered a new part #104048. Will be the end of the week before I get it so if tomorrow is a good day I will put the fuel pump back together and wait it out. If thIs attempt fails I may try an electronic fuel pump as I am just not sure what is really going on with this. Does anyone have another idea? Glad you finally found something promising! Since your pump sucked fuel out of a bottle and ran off of that, I'd imaging the crud stopping up the valve is the culprit. The vacuum pumps are only capable of "sucking" so much... They definitely wont pull fuel uphill through that! I believe the last time I ordered a fuel shutoff valve and gromet, I found a 2 pack for like $7 on Amazon.. Stuck the other one on the shelf and wound up needing it on my C160 here a month or two ago. Edited October 16, 2019 by ZXT Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pullstart 64,794 #46 Posted October 16, 2019 11 hours ago, gwest_ca said: Did you remove the valve from the tanK? Is there a filter on the valve inside the tank? Sorry - missed the 2nd page of this thread. I would suggest you remove the tank and flush with hot water and detergent. Let it sit in the sun to help dry it out. If you don't do it the sludge will contaminate the filter on the new valve. A short length of light chain tossed in will help scrub the inside surfaces and easy to fish back out after. Save what you remove from the tank so you can see just how bad it was. Garry I used to use acetone and a handful of 1/4” nuts to clean a tank out 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil902 70 #47 Posted October 16, 2019 The ID plate on my 1979 C-161 is located where Garry has the arrow pointing. I stuck my iPhone camera in and took a few pics to get the info. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,272 #48 Posted October 17, 2019 9 hours ago, Phil902 said: The ID plate on my 1979 C-161 is located where Garry has the arrow pointing. I stuck my iPhone camera in and took a few pics to get the info. Any chance you can post the pictures? When I discovered the 1978 models had the plate at the arrow and some 1979 models had them under the dash housing wondered if this was a way to separate the 1978 and 1979 models but guess not. Paul Boy's B&S Code 780424112 is April 24, 1978 so that could land on a 1978 or early 1979 tractor. Garry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil902 70 #49 Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) Garry:I included the tranny tag as well in case that's helpful. Numbers are all hard to read. ID number appears to be: 91-16BS. - 01777 , lower BI80; 80 for sure, not sure on BI. Tranny tag has three lines: 3012910-04 90-12910-1173 LH 04-UE 1906 ( and then one more which could be 9,8,6, or 3) I failed to include the code on the Briggs number I posted . Here is the full number: 402417 1921 01 87012012 Hope this helps Phil Edited October 17, 2019 by Phil902 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,272 #50 Posted October 18, 2019 Numbers are all hard to read. ID number appears to be: 91-16BS. - 01777 , lower BI80; 80 for sure, not sure on BI. I think the model number is 81-16BS01 with a 8180 build date - June 29 1978 Thursday Tranny tag has three lines: 3012910-04 90-12910-1173 LH 04-UE 1906 ( and then one more which could be 9,8,6, or 3) I don't know how to read the hydro numbers. I failed to include the code on the Briggs number I posted . Here is the full number: 402417 1921 01 87012012 Are you sure the 87012012 is not 78012012? January 20, 1978 sounds correct for a tractor build date of 8180 If the tractor model number is 91-16BS01 making it a 1979 model the tractor and engine build dates are possible. That first 9 printed on the tag could be an 8. Have no 1979 serials for this model to compare to. They often made mistakes in the build dates. They would start building 1978 models in mid-1977 so the Julian build date should be 7xxx but since they were building 1978 models they used 8xxx. They caught their mistake when January 1978 rolled around. Someday we may learn when they went from vertical ID plates to horizontal. Garry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
