First Tractor, First Wheel Horse!

[Dubstar76 14]

Hi All,

 

I have just bought my first Wheel Horse, its a 1974 Raider 10 - 4 Speed, fitted with a Kohler K301 Engine, this is also my first ever tractor! So I have joined this forum, to hopefully find some help and inspiration, initially help as I have no idea about tractors.

 

I purchased the Raider 10 as non runner, it was used last year and then dry stored in a barn, it wouldn't start this summer, so the previous owner decided to sell it, having owned it from new since 1974!!

 

I am now attempting to diagnose the non starting issue, so engine turns but wont fire, spark plug is black, correctly gapped and produces a weak spark, Spark plug cleaned, spark slightly improved (new one ordered)  Checked fuel its a year old so needs changing for fresh, now this is where the issue comes in, I left the fuel tap open and confirmed fuel was getting to the carb and thankfully it was, next checked the air filter and removed round cover ( very dirty). Whilst cleaning filter housing, fuel started pouring out of the air intake!!!

 

Is this normal or possibly the clue to the cause of the non start issue?

 

Any help and advise would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks for reading

Edited August 28, 2019 by Dubstar76

[WHX?? 51,774]

  Dubs..

You have certainly come to the right place anything !

Fuel coming out of the carb usually means a stuck float. Try tapping on the bowl gently and see if you can get it to unstick. I and the other fellas who will soon be along to greet you are going to suggest a carb cleaning. Heed this advice ther may be dirt in ther.  We are also going to suggest replacing ALL fluids and fuel lines along with a new fuel filter. It's just one of the first things to do on a new to us horse.

Don't worry these are all easy things to do even if you are as mechanically challenged as some of us. I won't mention names @ebinmaine. 

[oliver2-44 10,734]

You've found the right place for friendly WH help.

The Raider 10 with a 12 hp Kohler is a solid tractor. Tell us a little about you've self, and how mechanically inclined your are.  it will help us guide you.  Fuel pouring out the carburetor is not normal.  A carb rebuild may be needed, but there's some simple things to do before that.  It sounds like the carb float is stuck open. 

On the bottom of the carb is a round bottomed aluminum bowl held on by one bolt in the center.  Take this bowl off.  You will see the carb float hanging down, and a black rubber gasket above it.  The bowl will probable have some gummed up ethanol fuel nuggets in it.  Also remove the rubber gas line at the carb.  Get a spray can of carb cleaner ( I like the real stuff, many brands, just not the environmentally friendly stuff that doesn't work IMHO)  Spray the carb cleaner down the fuel fitting and gently move the float up and down.  You are trying to clean the rubber tipped needle valve without disassembling the carb.  As you spray, the cleaner should be dripping out the bottom of he carb. Now hold the float up and see if the needle will seal and hold the spray in.  If it will clean the bowl and put it back on. Getting the old black rubber gasket to reseal can be a problem, but it's worth a try.     you may also want to remove the 2 brass carb adjusting screws on the top sides of the carb.  1st gently turn them in clockwise and count the number of full/partial turns each goes in until it stops.  The remove the screws and spray carb cleaner through the holes to wash them out.  On the long screw look at it with a magnifier glass and you will see a middle and lower set of holes.  Spray these holes out.  If needed gently clean them with a very fine wire.  Reinstall these adjusting screws and set them to the number of turns open you originally found them.  Hopefully it will start.

 

You probable will want to replace the old fuel lines, possible clean out the tank, and maybe do a full carb overhaul once you prove it will run.       

[Herder 2,355]

  you've come to right place.

[ebinmaine 72,718]

22 minutes ago, WHX24 said:

  Dubs..

You have certainly come to the right place anything !

Fuel coming out of the carb usually means a stuck float. Try tapping on the bowl gently and see if you can get it to unstick. I and the other fellas who will soon be along to greet you are going to suggest a carb cleaning. Heed this advice ther may be dirt in ther.  We are also going to suggest replacing ALL fluids and fuel lines along with a new fuel filter. It's just one of the first things to do on a new to us horse.

Don't worry these are all easy things to do even if you are as mechanically challenged as some of us. I won't mention names @ebinmaine. 

HAHAHAHAHAHHA

 

I can't deny that Jim!!!

 

I'm challenged alright... In many ways.

 

@Dubstar76

 

Well get you and your tractor straightened up!!

 

 

[WHX?? 51,774]

Excellent advice Ollie ... you need engine or carb manuals Dubs we have them here just ask! 

[ZXT 2,401]

7 replies in an nobody has asked for pictures? Whats the deal guys? !

Pull and clean the carb, and file the points as well. If you need instruction on how to file the points, let us know! Jim's explanation on cleaning the carb is spot on.  

Edited August 29, 2019 by ZXT

[Pullstart 66,824]

18 minutes ago, ZXT said:

7 replies in an nobody has asked for pictures? Whats the deal guys? !

Pull and clean the carb, and file the points as well. If you need instruction on how to file the points, let us know! Jim's explanation on cleaning the carb is spot on.  

 

As I’m reading, I kept the weak spark in mind too.  Great advise up there @Dubstar76, follow along and you’ll be falling into the Horse-A-Holics realm sooner than later!   to !  

[SylvanLakeWH 28,443]

[Daddy Don 909]

[Dubstar76 14]

6 hours ago, WHX24 said:

Excellent advice Ollie ... you need engine or carb manuals Dubs we have them here just ask! 

Thanks, I have found the engine manual, not managed to read through it yet. 

 

6 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

You've found the right place for friendly WH help.

The Raider 10 with a 12 hp Kohler is a solid tractor. Tell us a little about you've self, and how mechanically inclined your are.  it will help us guide you.  Fuel pouring out the carburetor is not normal.  A carb rebuild may be needed, but there's some simple things to do before that.  It sounds like the carb float is stuck open. 

On the bottom of the carb is a round bottomed aluminum bowl held on by one bolt in the center.  Take this bowl off.  You will see the carb float hanging down, and a black rubber gasket above it.  The bowl will probable have some gummed up ethanol fuel nuggets in it.  Also remove the rubber gas line at the carb.  Get a spray can of carb cleaner ( I like the real stuff, many brands, just not the environmentally friendly stuff that doesn't work IMHO)  Spray the carb cleaner down the fuel fitting and gently move the float up and down.  You are trying to clean the rubber tipped needle valve without disassembling the carb.  As you spray, the cleaner should be dripping out the bottom of he carb. Now hold the float up and see if the needle will seal and hold the spray in.  If it will clean the bowl and put it back on. Getting the old black rubber gasket to reseal can be a problem, but it's worth a try.     you may also want to remove the 2 brass carb adjusting screws on the top sides of the carb.  1st gently turn them in clockwise and count the number of full/partial turns each goes in until it stops.  The remove the screws and spray carb cleaner through the holes to wash them out.  On the long screw look at it with a magnifier glass and you will see a middle and lower set of holes.  Spray these holes out.  If needed gently clean them with a very fine wire.  Reinstall these adjusting screws and set them to the number of turns open you originally found them.  Hopefully it will start.

 

You probable will want to replace the old fuel lines, possible clean out the tank, and maybe do a full carb overhaul once you prove it will run.       

Wow, that is a detailed reply. I shall give it a good clean out tonight. Ordered some new fuel line, a spark plug and a tub of elbow grease 😂 

 

5 hours ago, ZXT said:

7 replies in an nobody has asked for pictures? Whats the deal guys? !

Pull and clean the carb, and file the points as well. If you need instruction on how to file the points, let us know! Jim's explanation on cleaning the carb is spot on.  

Photos on its way 

 

Thanks to all the welcome post and advise so far.

 

 

[Dubstar76 14]

Here’s a few pics of my new stallion 😀

 

I have bought my first Wheel Horse, because my better half has 3 Equine horses and being the unpaid stable boy that I am, she decided I could do with a little mechanical help around the yard and with a limited budget only a wheel horse would do, so I got my little Raider 10 for a cool £200. I have a fair mechanical knowledge, usually i spend my time tinkering on Classic Mini’s, so use to breakdowns and continuous TLC to keep vehicles going. Agricultural mechanicals are new to me, so I’m looking forward to the new challenges a Wheel horse brings and joining the Wheel horse community 😀

[ebinmaine 72,718]

1 hour ago, Dubstar76 said:

and a tub of elbow grease

 

1 hour ago, Dubstar76 said:

looking forward to the new challenges a Wheel horse brings and joining the Wheel horse community

With a sense of humor and a positive awareness of life like that you'll do just fine around this site and for that Wheelhorse.

 

They're a great machine given a little maintenance like most things.

 

Good luck and keep asking questions.

 

Love to see some pics of the hair covered horses as well.

 

 

[The Tuul Crib 7,339]

to 

[Pullstart 66,824]

5 hours ago, Dubstar76 said:

Tub of elbow grease

 

Can you send us the link to that?  

[WHX?? 51,774]

2 hours ago, pullstart said:

 

Can you send us the link to that?  

You could use a couple of 5 gallon buckets of that Kev......maybe get your shop cleaned up!

[Dubstar76 14]

Evening All,

 

So a little tinkering after work tonight, whilst I wait for the fuel line and clamps to turn up. 

 

The carb has has been removed and cleaned, not that it needed it, looks like it has been refurbished internal recently or at least hasn’t done many work hours since refurb. Fuel tank emptied and cleaned out. Battery fully charged and new spark plug gapped and fitted.

 

Have done all the above I decide to do a compression test, prior to refitting the spark plug and the compression reading was 5 Bar, using a Gunson Compression tester, is 5 Bar pressure the correct compression value?

 

To do the compression test I turn the engine over on the starter and I noticed the ignition coil was super hot! Now I have ignition coils on my classic mini’s and have not ever felt the need to feel the temperature of them, with the nature in how they work I can imagine they do get quite hot, but I only turned the engine over a couple of times to get the compression reading. Are they meant to get super hot so quickly?

 

Finally my brake pedal is solid, what type of brakes do I have and how do I free it up?

 

Thank you all for your welcomes and help so far, I can not wait to get this little baby running and hopefully stopping too 😂

[Dubstar76 14]

12 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

With a sense of humor and a positive awareness of life like that you'll do just fine around this site and for that Wheelhorse.

 

They're a great machine given a little maintenance like most things.

 

Good luck and keep asking questions.

 

Love to see some pics of the hair covered horses as well.

 

 

Here’s a pic of the hairy horses for ebinmaine 

[953 nut 60,071]

9 hours ago, pullstart said:

 

Can you send us the link to that?  

Here ya go!

[oliver2-44 10,734]

You Kohler engine has a compression release, so you cannot get an accurate reading at low starter speed,  on these engines a cylinder Leakage Tester is the only thing that will give you any idea of what condition the engine internals are in. 

[953 nut 60,071]

31 minutes ago, Dubstar76 said:

using a Gunson Compression tester, is 5 Bar pressure the correct compression value?

                                                                           

That comes out to about 75 PSI in American terms which is quite good. The Kohler engines have an ACR (automatic compression release) that allows the engine to turn over with greater ease while starting. Once the engine starts the compression will go up.  

As Kevin @pullstart pointed out, the spark should be strong. With your noticing the ignition coil heating up you may want to purchase a new one. The coil from a Volkswagen that has a 12 volt electrical system will work well. The coil needs to have an internal resistor.

[Dubstar76 14]

Thanks guys,

 

953 nut - I’m sure I have a couple of spare coils in my garage from my classic mini’s, I was also thinking of changing the HT lead to the spark plug, think I remember something about resistance and ohms, where a bad HT lead can cause the coil to overheat due to a low resistance or maybe the other way round 🤷‍♂️

 

Oliver2-44 - Please can you remind me on how to do a cylinder leakage test or what is a Cylinder leakage tester. I vaguely remember doing cylinder leak test with the cylinder head off the engine, but that was when I was young and could still remember what I had done the day before...😂

 

 

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 72,718]

I've not tried this one but it's on my list of tools to build at some point.

 

 

 

 

[Dubstar76 14]

2 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

I've not tried this one but it's on my list of tools to build at some point.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you, but I think that may well be a little too advanced for me. Maybe have to source a specialist here in the UK for that test. 

[ebinmaine 72,718]

1 minute ago, Dubstar76 said:

 

Thank you, but I think that may well be a little too advanced for me. Maybe have to source a specialist here in the UK for that test. 

to be honest it's been a year or so since I've even read that post but I remember thinking I probably could assemble that with some patience. My mechanical ability is fairly decent but I am certainly no Automotive or small engine technician.

 

if you've been working on cars and farm equipment in the past you probably can handle building something that that just fine but it's a matter of how often you might use it.

Trina and I started fiddling around with these tractors just two or three years ago and I am just now starting to delve into the engine work end of things.

 

It's likely much more cost-effective for you to find a small engine or equipment repair business nearby you.