Jump start catastrophe

[Kody Bob 17]

Embarrassed to even be saying this. I was trying to jump my 310 with my c-145... It was dark... and I hooked the leads to the 310 backwards. I disconnected it immediately as there was a spark at the terminal when I connected it. Did not see any smoke from the wires or anything like that but... 

 

Now neither of them do anything when turning the key...

 

Small engine electrical is not my strong suit but it looks like I'm ready to learn. Any help would be greatly appreciated as to where to start.

 

What a night...

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,495]

Here is a start. The 312 is the same except it has the idiot panel lights. They are an add-on so do not affect to rest of the wiring. Click on the pictures

Garry

[oliver2-44 8,852]

Were you connecting battery to battery? inspect the batteries and make sure one didn't crack, possible around the terminal. This won't keep it from working, but you don't wan't battery acid leaking everywhere causing more problems. 

Start with the easy things, checking the fuses, and if you have a multi-meter, check the voltage on each battery.  They should read somewhere in the 12.5 to 14 volts.  Let us know what  you find and that will possible point some direction.  

[SylvanLakeWH 24,129]

 

No expert but I would start by checking all fuses, batteries and switches...may be fried...

 

Good way to help avoid this is to always ground black wire to the vehicle...

 

Folks with more expertise will be along!

 

Good luck!

[classiccat 548]

+ 1 on the fuses.

 

the regulator is the weakest link and probably took one for the team... try unplugging it to see if you can at least start the C-145.

[ericj 1,576]

Did you happen to forget to check the simple things like safety switches in all of the confusion. Don't hurt to double check. I've also tried to hook up jumper cable, battery chargers, and jumper packs back ward in the past  as soon as you see the sparks you remember real fast and yank it off. I've been fortunate to never to hurt anything yet. I would check safety switches and the check battery voltage, fuses like said above and then check grounds. If you didn't do more then touch them backwards you shouldn't have done any major damage, hopefully.  good luck

 

 

 

 

 

eric j  

[bc.gold 3,399]

My first car at 12 an old 47 Hudson, 22;5 ft between bumpers, little "Super Six" flathead engine coupled to a cork disc clutch run wet in an oil bath the 6 volt battery is where things get interesting.

 

One day in our very cramped work shop had the battery on the charge, my father hadn't noticed this when he decided to use the bench grinder just above the battery sitting on the floor among the rest of the junk, the battery exploded soaking him with sulfuric acid.

 

Never seen the old man run so fast as I never looked behind me on these occasions, he ran into the house grabbed the baking soda then mixed this into a past with cold water then rubbed this onto his face and arms.

 

I'm severity years old now and never since lost a battery due to carelessness.

 

1. Lead acid battery's generate hydrogen while charging and should always be suspect, a small spark from improper cable connection can ruin your day. Hydrogen is lighter than air.

 

2. Battery acid ( sulfuric acid ) is corrosive dissolves organic material some plastics human tissue and worse, is hydroscopic and causes very deep tissue burns as it seeks out body moisture, blindness if it gets in your eyes.

 

3. Fortunately battery acid at 35% acid to water ratio is rather weak, in my other hobby I often use concentrated sulfuric 98% which is like syrup  the alchemists named it oil of vitriol.

 

Probably more than you want to know, sulfuric acid combined with hydrogen peroxide becomes piranha acid which is really aggressive and should be handled with great caution.

 

Piranha solution, also known as piranha etch, is a mixture of sulfuric acid (H2SO4) and hydrogen peroxide (H2O2), used to clean organic residues off substrates.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by bcgold

[bc.gold 3,399]

5 hours ago, Kody Bob said:

Embarrassed to even be saying this. I was trying to jump my 310 with my c-145... It was dark... and I hooked the leads to the 310 backwards. I disconnected it immediately as there was a spark at the terminal when I connected it. Did not see any smoke from the wires or anything like that but... 

 

Now neither of them do anything when turning the key...

 

Small engine electrical is not my strong suit but it looks like I'm ready to learn. Any help would be greatly appreciated as to where to start.

 

What a night...

 

 

Use your multi meter to check the battery for voltage, it's possible that one of the internal lead buss bars that connects the cells has melted causing an open circuit with in the battery.

 

In the image the buss bar looks beefy but where it passes between the cells it is not.

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by bcgold

[953 nut 51,656]

Good answers by several people. If it was running at the time, the C-145 probably blew the fuse that goes from the battery (via the solenoid) to ignition switch "B" terminal of your ignition switch. The 310 probably didn't suffer any damage at all.

[WHNJ701 4,164]

most of the new battery chargers and booster boxes are idiot proof and won't work I'd hooked up backwards.

 

[Kody Bob 17]

Thanks for the replies so far guys. Will test the batteries and fuses tonight. Hopefully its something as simple as that. 

 

Classicat - Can you explain unplugging the regulator a little bit? I would assume if I just pull out the 3 prong plastic clip that it would still not work? Wouldn't that circuit still need to be completed somehow?

 

 

[pfrederi 17,147]

Unplugging the regulator will not affect the operation of the engine..just won't charge the battery.

[Kody Bob 17]

On 2/19/2019 at 9:09 PM, oliver2-44 said:

Were you connecting battery to battery? inspect the batteries and make sure one didn't crack, possible around the terminal. This won't keep it from working, but you don't wan't battery acid leaking everywhere causing more problems. 

Start with the easy things, checking the fuses, and if you have a multi-meter, check the voltage on each battery.  They should read somewhere in the 12.5 to 14 volts.  Let us know what  you find and that will possible point so

 

Pretty slow night.. checked the fuses, both that I found looked ok, bar was not visibly broken unless it broke down in the end caps. Bought the wrong type to replace them unfortunately... Will replace them tomorrow after work. Also picked up a multimeter that I was unable to install the battery in because I didn't have a small enough screw driver... Good times! Did pick up a new battery as well. Lastly I tried unplugging the  regulator and try to start as suggested but that did not work either. Hopefully tomorrow will be more successful. 

Edited February 21, 2019 by Kody Bob

[oliver2-44 8,852]

Since your heading back to get some other supplies you might pick up a couple of alligator clip test leads.  These will be useful if you need to jumper out safety switches or across things.  

 

After you've double checked the fuses, and verified the battery is good or replaced it, if you still have  nothing you can...

1st You can clip an alligator jumper from the battery + positive to (just touch) the small terminal on the starter solenoid and verify the engine will crank (will not start since no power to coil). 

 

2. (make sure tractor is not in gear) Then you can connect a jumper from the + positive side of the battery to the + side of the coil, and then You can clip an alligator jumper from the battery + positive to (just touch) the small terminal on the starter solenoid and the engine should try to start. (This bypasses all the safety's and bypasses the ignition switch to give you basic verification tractor will run.  If it runs, then you can start trouble shooting the rest of the electrical.)

[Kody Bob 17]

25 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said:

Since your heading back to get some other supplies you might pick up a couple of alligator clip test leads.  These will be useful if you need to jumper out safety switches or across things.  

 

After you've double checked the fuses, and verified the battery is good or replaced it, if you still have  nothing you can...

1st You can clip an alligator jumper from the battery + positive to (just touch) the small terminal on the starter solenoid and verify the engine will crank (will not start since no power to coil). 

 

2. (make sure tractor is not in gear) Then you can connect a jumper from the + positive side of the battery to the + side of the coil, and then You can clip an alligator jumper from the battery + positive to (just touch) the small terminal on the starter solenoid and the engine should try to start. (This bypasses all the safety's and bypasses the ignition switch to give you basic verification tractor will run.  If it runs, then you can start trouble shooting the rest of the electrical.)

Will do, thanks for the breakdown on how to bypass everything. Should definitely help in trying to isolate any problems.

[bc.gold 3,399]

Ask Santa for a multi meter, perhaps previous owner installed an inline fuse-able link, they come in various shapes colors and sizees and maybe disguised as wire or wire connector.

 

Edited February 21, 2019 by bcgold

[Kody Bob 17]

Replaced fuses and battery and attempted to jump the starter solenoid. The tractor began to turn over. Connected a lead to the coil and the repeated jumping the solenoid. The tractor began to run and cut out (the fuel was off and it used what was in the line to run for a moment).

 

I also found that with a jumper to the coil I could engage the starter using the ignition switch. Though with the lead removed from the coil I still have nothing from the switch...

 

Any next test steps would be greatly appreciated.

[953 nut 51,656]

1 hour ago, Kody Bob said:

found that with a jumper to the coil I could engage the starter using the ignition switch. Though with the lead removed from the coil I still have nothing from the switch.

The voltage was being back fed from the coil to the switch, the feed from the battery to the ignition switch has an open some place. Fuse holder, amp meter, wire?

[Kody Bob 17]

Does the voltage regulator tie into the ignition switch in any way? I do have a multimeter now, any good ways to further isolate the break in the circuit?

[953 nut 51,656]

Your voltage regulator is connected to the "R" terminal of the ignition switch. It is connected to the battery through the switch in the run position only.

[oliver2-44 8,852]

I borrowed this simplified wiring diagram that @BOB ELLISON created. 

1st I would use the multimeter to see if you have 12+v Dc at the switch B battery terminal.  if yes, turn key to start and check you have voltage at the switch S start position, and the switch  I ignition terminal and the switch R regulator terminal.  (this verifies that those parts of the switch and those circuits are working). If that checks OK, take an alligator jumper and jump from the switch S  Start to the Solenoid, turn key to start and if it starts that points to a problem with one on the safety switches.  You could then remove the Start to Solenoid jumper and work your way jumpering across each safety switch.  if one of the above Switch voltage checks don't check out, that points you to a problem area, and we can work through it from there.  

 

Note, the back side of the switch should have the alphabet letters engraved or printed on it, just like shown in bob's drawing. 

 

Hey, @953 nut and others don't hesitate to jump in here. Its challenging me (but good practice) to try and write these checks down in a logical sequence and not leave something out.  

 

 

 

[bc.gold 3,399]

Is your tractor equipped with an ammeter, if so does the needle move into discharge when the key is turned on. If the answer is no use your Multi meter to check the green wire shown in the schematic posted by Oliver2-44. 

 

If the green tests out ok then your ammeter is suspect you can use a short wire with clips to bridge the terminals on the rear of the meter while these are bridged check for power at the batt terminal on the ignition switch or you can try and start the engine. If the engine starts with the ammeter bridged replace the meter.

[oliver2-44 8,852]

@Kody Bob Hows the tractor electrical trouble shooting going?

[Kody Bob 17]

Had a busy weekend and have not had a chance to trouble shoot. Will be using the diagram and my multimeter tonight to hopefully pin it down. In case it is the ammeter, any pointers on where to find one or who might have one on the forum here?

[953 nut 51,656]

Due to the problems related to them some of us replace the amp meter with a volt meter. Just connect the two wires thst go to the amp meter and run a new wire from the "A: terminal of your ignition switch to the "+" of the volt meter and a ground wire to the "-".