Toro walk behind help plz ?

[Digger 66 3,476]

Hey fellas , was wondering if any of you have had a Toro Personal Pace mower with the 6.5 hp Tecumseh ?

The problem I'm having with this mower is that it cranks over very slowly even with a fresh battery .

This mower starts with one pull but it belongs to my 77 y/o mom who cannot pull start it .

The starting system has me stumped in that :

A ) uses a small lithium ion battery 

B ) has no relay 

C ) has no solenoid

D ) does not use the heavy gauge wire we're accustomed to seeing on tractors .

 

I have had the starter apart and cleaned the brushes and commutator with zero results .

 

I'd like to fix this mower or my mom will go and buy a $ 500.00 Honda .

  

[ebinmaine 63,157]

I don't have any specific particular experience with that model.

 

Couple things come to mind. You've had the starter out already. I assume you bench tested it and felt that it was good to go when it was in your hands?

 

Did you double check to make sure that all the grounds and mounts are clean?

 

Have you tried to replace the wire that is on there with a jumper to see if the wire maybe partially corroded and has resistance built into it?

Or, on the same line of thinking, jump it off of another battery while that one is still connected to see if there's a difference there.

 

I'm curious to know how long this problem has been going on? Something she just noticed or something that has been getting slowly worse over time?

 

 

[Digger 66 3,476]

I did bench-run the starter briefly to re-seat the brushes .

The grounds are clean and tight .

None of the wires feel hot when cranking or afterwards .

I'm also a bit leery of a jump with a hotter battery because I do not fully understand how lithium ion batteries ( and the systems they power ) work .

I mean I sure don't want to "direct jump" it with the 600 cca battery in my sled .

The mower is 12 years old and really doesn't owe her a dime .

I did all the yearly maintenance on the machine and it really is in great condition .

 

Yes , 12 volts is 12 volts . But if the starter ( and the rest of the system ) is designed to be powered by fewer amps , I'd rather not fry anything .

Another thing that has me scratching my noggin is why these starters are 94 bucks and the starter I just bought for my 12 hp zero turn was 34 dollars .

 

https://www.amazon.com/Tecumseh-37753-Starter/dp/B0074BML3W

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Digger 66

[The Gman 476]

If it's OHV the valve clearance (s) may be loose??????

[ebinmaine 63,157]

may want to search around a little bit before you buy a starter. Looks like there's a used one in that listing for about $45 if you scroll down. Also, take that part number from tecumsah and search it in the shopping section of Google or other search engines and you may be able to find it for substantially less money.

 

the other thing is, what is the lifespan of the battery that's in that machine?

 

[Digger 66 3,476]

6 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

 

the other thing is, what is the lifespan of the battery that's in that machine?

 

 

I'm not really sure but I would think it should last at least one mowing season .

I bought her a fresh battery May 2018 and ( following the batteries recommended charging procedures ) it didn't last 5 months .

 

 

[Digger 66 3,476]

8 hours ago, The Gman said:

If it's OHV the valve clearance (s) may be loose??????

 

Thank you for the response .

I will look into this .

[SylvanLakeWH 24,152]

Got one of them and yes - they crank slow...

 

Not sure why. Always has.

 

I keep mine trickle charged all winter and it does seem to "work" but when it is cold it gets pull started...

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,499]

Mind posting the Toro model number of this unit? I'm curious.

 

Garry

[Digger 66 3,476]

25 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

Mind posting the Toro model number of this unit? I'm curious.

 

Garry

 

The starter or the whole mower ?

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,499]

The whole mower.

 

Garry

[Digger 66 3,476]

3 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

The whole mower.

 

Garry

 

 

I'll post it by dinner time .

Just stopped by my local power equipment guy .

He said hold a volt meter to the battery while cranking and see if the voltage drops below 10 V 

[1995 520H+96+97 935]

Does it crank slow with a cold engine and or a hot engine?

[Digger 66 3,476]

48 minutes ago, 1995 520H+96+97 said:

Does it crank slow with a cold engine and or a hot engine?

 

Both , I thought about the viscosity too 

[Digger 66 3,476]

8 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

Mind posting the Toro model number of this unit? I'm curious.

 

Garry

 

There is no "model #" on any of the decals but there is a SKU # . It's 21038 20074 and it's in the pic .

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,499]

Using 20074 found this for the VIN location. A 2007 model. Sometimes deep into Toro you can find service manuals but only on the transmissions for this one. The operator manual mentions lead-acid battery so this may be the wrong one. Also noticed the fuse is 40 amp.

 

Garry

[Digger 66 3,476]

 Thank you soooo much for the comeback , I'm pretty bushed right now ( work 4 am - 4 pm shift ) so it's time for a meal and some shut-eye .

I will post back tomorrow about 4:30 / 5:00 with the number that's under the flap .

Again , thank you very much , will check the rating of the fuse too .

 

-Gene 

[WHX?? 46,797]

Any thoughts on ditching the Li-on batt for something more powerfull? BUT from what Sylvan says maybe the starter is a bit under torque?  Maybe try  a jump-pak just for grins?? Hate to see mom try and pull a cord.  Get back when you can Gene.

[Digger 66 3,476]

Here's the tag fellas .

I'll do the google digging myself this weekend when I have some time .

Just didn't want to leave anyone hanging .... 

Forgot to check the fuse 

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Digger 66

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,499]

The parts lists show a wet lead-acid battery. 

https://www.partstree.com/parts/toro/parts/106-8397/

Perhaps the capacity of Li-on batteries is lower?

Is the charger compatible with the type of battery being charged?

 

Garry

[Digger 66 3,476]

8 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

The parts lists show a wet lead-acid battery. 

https://www.partstree.com/parts/toro/parts/106-8397/

Perhaps the capacity of Li-on batteries is lower?

Is the charger compatible with the type of battery being charged?

 

Garry

 

It has an original Toro battery ,I only assumed it was a li-io because it's very small and uses slide on terminal connectors instead of the normal bolts we're used to seeing .

It's maintained with a Deltran Battery Tender Jr .

[Digger 66 3,476]

Well , it's been over 10 years since I had a drink but this may be my downfall .

I replaced all the starter system wiring and it will turn over all day and not fire .

I give the cord ONE ^&$#ing pull and it fires right up ( with my hand still holding the safety lever in the same position yet ) !!

 

What is different from the starter turning the mower over to me pulling the cord ONCE ! 

There is only one safety device and it is on the handle ... SHEESH ! 

 

 

[oldredrider 2,547]

I'll throw this out there...the starter is not spinning fast enough. Yank start turns the motor over pretty fast.

[Digger 66 3,476]

9 minutes ago, oldredrider said:

I'll throw this out there...the starter is not spinning fast enough. Yank start turns the motor over pretty fast.

 

That's why I went through all the wiring ^^ 

It turns over ( probably ) quicker with the starter than with the rope 

[Sarge 3,462]

Might just be an issue with either a safety cutout relay (oil switch?) or just that safety switch on the handle. Perhaps, when giving it a harder grip to pull the rope - that switch is being engaged differently? I've had things like that on those types of dual start blowers, one turned out to be a safety switch that was just plain worn out.

 

Sarge