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running higher octane gas, good/bad

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During a recent conversion with a friend about gas, he mentioned that he was under the impression that the higher octane fuels had less ethanol than the 87.  Not sure if this is true and /or if the higher octane would damage the M-18 Kohler.

 

Any thoughts?

 

BTW,  for those of you who live in the Red Lion and Delta areas of PA, there is s new Royal Farms on 74 (towards Delta) that carries ethanol free gas at roughly $1.00 more than the unleaded regular.

 

Cod

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High Octane can still have ethanol.  Some stations have ethanol free hi-test.  The higher Octane will not hurt your magnum...just your pocket book.  But if you can get ethanol free hi-test that could be worth teh extra

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I'm pretty sure all fuels have corn in them now unless otherwise stated .

The ratios to octane i'm not sure about but if it says "contains 10 % ethanol" , 1 out of every 10 gallons you pump is garbage .

 

I buy the high octane ( 93 ) around here because it's the only grade available without the poison in it .

Using high octane fuel in a low compression is a waste of money , unless thats the only way you can feed your engines pure gasoline https://www.pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html

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whether it's right or not I run 93 in all my small engines (my garden tractors, lawn mowers etc..) mixed with stabil, I noticed a difference for the better for easier starting and running if they sit for awhile.  the truck and cars get 87

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Wow - that whole statement should be a permanent sticky in the biggest bold text possible on every forum dealing with small engines . I've been screaming about this stuff for years since I own a lot of older equipment and have dealt with the resulting issues and failures - the aircraft industry is far ahead of everyone else because of safety restrictions, too bad we can't at least adopt some of that the to mass market and stop this stuff from being used to pad profits and hurt consumers in the process. The Lobby is so powerful now I don't how we can go back and Congress has been more than happy enough to play along, that needs to stop.

 

The truth listed in those points needs to be driven into the minds of every consumer in this country - with a hammer if necessary.

 

Thank you so much for posting that - I have been hunting that page for quite awhile since it's very well-written and easy to understand, especially the portion about user testing, kudos to @953 nut !!!

 

Sarge

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Some of our local quick stop shops have my strongly preferred ethanol free 91 octane and we sell Stihl ethanol free 93 octane mix at the hardware store (but at a price you'd never run in your tractor!).  I know of no reason to run high octane in a tractor other than it's the only way to avoid ethanol UNLESS perhaps it starts better in cold weather. I've also been told too many times to not believe it that there seasonal blends in fuels, gas, diesel and heating so that would make decisions even more complicated.  You buy low octane gas in the summer and some of the lighter volatiles evaporate until come January the engine won't start.  Maybe fresh winter blend would start? I'm just sharing what I've heard that sounds plausible.  Maybe someone who knows would share more. 

 

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Oh! And Richard, that was a great post!  If you lived in the "corn belt" I might have some concerns for your well being but I suppose you're OK where you live! 

 

That really does a good job of explaining the real world as I understand it!  Don't misunderstand me, ethanol is great stuff and I use and even recommend moderate mixing and consumption but it should never ever be mixed with gasoline!

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Even in vehicles designed for it Ethanol reduces gas mileage as there are fewer BTUs (or hp hours) per gallon.  Note on this chart how much weaker the E85 stuff is and that is what some are pushing for....sad.

gas.JPG

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the only benefit from higher octane E10 is that when the ethanol does eventually phase separate, it's no longer available for combustion...and the ethanol is factored into the octane rating.

 

I'm fortunate enough to have 2 stations w/ E0 fuel nearby... I only purchase what I plan to use in 1-2 months.   The only thing that gets added is 1oz / gal of seafoam.

 

One little tip: When I'm at the pump, I always "treat" my truck to the 1st 2 gallons to purge the E10 (OR MORE!) corn squeezins and ensure my OPE tank is pure E0.

 

the guy I purchased the C85 from swore he used E0 only.

 

Here's the ethanol/H2O jelly that I extracted from the bottom of the C85's fuel tank:

FeIRuOT.jpg

Edited by classiccat
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Even though I'm enjoying it I'm getting off topic regarding the original question regarding octane.  I think most of us know gasoline is not a good mix with the basis of our adult beverages, but what values does high octane have for our tractors? 

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Back when I had my other collection of 'horses,  that was all I would put in them was 93. They would sit for months without being started. I'd go out in the middle of  winter, turn the key, handful of revs later, it was running. I heard of people running 87 in other motors, and even after they rebuilt the carb, it would turn to powder and either ruining the carb, or needing another rebuild. Pretty much anything that I have besides my car, truck and Tahoe, get 93. I just sold my 854 that I got last summer. I haven't touched it since then, but it had 93. After jumping it off another tractor, it started up. Now the carb needed work but that was just needle and seat were out of whack. Sitting for that long with 87, the carb would be junk. 

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I was told that air cooled engines run cooler with higher octane gas. Don't know this to be fact. I always use high test in my tractors. The manuels may call for regular, but regular was higher than 87 octane in the 60's & 70's ... :twocents-02cents:

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My arguments against ethanol and cheap base grade fuels is proven - all my equipment starts easily after being stored, sometimes for more than a year with no issue. Everyone else drags their junk over here for repairs - it's to the point I tell them to replace it and see if they will actually listen to advice and stern warnings about the stuff. Evidently, some humans are just stupid , no other explanation and no matter what I do, they won't listen but will complain about repair costs.

 

Sarge

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Why not use the "test with water" method, upscaled, and then drain the water/ethanol mix right out of it? Cheapest way to get pure gas perhaps?

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1 hour ago, roadapples said:

I was told that air cooled engines run cooler with higher octane gas. Don't know this to be fact. I always use high test in my tractors. The manuels may call for regular, but regular was higher than 87 octane in the 60's & 70's ... :twocents-02cents:

 

They run cooler on ethanol gas, which is actually a positive side of E fuel that also should be mentioned.

 

If the engine run cooler on higher octane, it is because your ignition is premature for the low octane, causing heat build up. Has nothing to do with the gas itself, but is a derivative of the timing being set for higher octane. Hense, your engine will also make more power on high octane, if adjusted to it, compared to low octane.

Edited by Skipper
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With my vague understanding the octane rating is how well the fuel will resist detonation (or pre ignition) before spark, and lower compression engines such as our little air cooled engines and most daily driven cars trucks (9:1 and under) now as we raise compression and/or force induction (turbo/supercharged) the need for higher octane fuels with normal (older) fuel delivery systems (carbs, throttle body injection, intake port injection)  but as more sophisticated computer controlled ignitions and direct port injection are coming on board higher compression can be used with lower octane fuel like my '14 Silverado 11:1CR direct port injected tuned for 87 or E85 and when I do run E85 it definitely comes alive but goes from 18mpg to 12-13mpg, running 93 octane in a vehicle "tuned" for 87 won't run any better or give any better fuel mileage, supposedly higher octane fuels have higher levels of detergents ect for helping eliminate carbon deposits thereby helping prevent detenotaion along with the octane, here in VA a local farm related fuel provider sells non ethanol fuels in 87/89/ and 93 octane but I still buy the 93 only for its supposed better additive/detergent package, I really haven't noticed any difference between 87 and 93 for power but haven't had any of the carb issues since going nonE93 , the old saying pay me now or pay me later really stands for itself here, so there's my :twocents-02cents: with a dollars worth of change, Jeff.

Screenshot_20180225-180309.png

Screenshot_20180225-180355.png

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way back in 1988 I bought my first new truck, only new truck to tell the truth, I was having problems with fuel mileage and some performance issues after about 3 months of ownership. So I took it back to the dealer and they wanted to replace the fuel injectors. It is throttle bodied injected. The mechanic pulled the air cleaner and looked into the throttle body and then looked back at me and asked what for grade gas i run it it then answered himself and said 93 octane right. the inside of the throttle body was perfectly clean. He went ahead and changed the injectors anyways and told me that high test gas has additives that clean fuel injectors and keep motors and fuel injectors cleaner then regular.

I ran high test for years in all my vehicles. After working for and oil company doing furnace repairs, the tanker drivers told me that mid grade gas is just a 50/50 blend of high test and regular, so I started using mid grade in my vehicles with out any problems, kinda getting the best of both world so to speak. With that being said I only run high test in my tractors and lawn equipment. A lot of my tractors sit for months on end and so far I have had very little if any problems. sometimes the tractor will run a little funny till I get the old gas run out of it but it does run, and by the way I do add stay-bil to my gas when I buy it. 

 

 

eric j  

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Pretty much the same cleaning additives in all grades of gasoline.

 

Will higher octane gasoline clean your engine better?

No, as a rule, high octane gasoline doesn’t outperform regular octane in preventing engine deposits from forming, in removing them, or in cleaning your car's engine. In fact, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency requires that all octane grades of all brands of gasoline contain engine cleaning detergent additives to protect against the build-up of harmful levels of engine deposits during the expected life of your car.

 

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0210-paying-premium-high-octane-gasoline

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On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 12:01 PM, cod said:

 

 

BTW,  for those of you who live in the Red Lion and Delta areas of PA, there is s new Royal Farms on 74 (towards Delta) that carries ethanol free gas at roughly $1.00 more than the unleaded regular.

 

Cod

I stopped there today ( 2 miles South of Red Lion) and they are not selling gas.     :confusion-shrug:

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1 hour ago, Ed Kennell said:

I stopped there today ( 2 miles South of Red Lion) and they are not selling gas.     :confusion-shrug:

Ed, you need to go about 15 miles towards Delta.  I buy 90 octane ethanol free there for my motorcycle.

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Thanks Lynn, I may try the Sunoco in Dallastown....I see they have a sign for racing fuel.

Edited by Ed Kennell

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Thanks for the replies and the information. Nice to know I won't ruin the Kohler if I go with a higher octane fuel.

I also apologize for any confusion I caused about the RF selling ethanol free gas.  I saw the price they had on their sign but I never checked to see if they were actually selling it. If I'm by there this weekend, I'll stop in and check.

Plus I should have also mentioned that the station on 74 is down by the rotatory near the Delta Family Restaurant.  So hopefully I didn't send Ed on a wild goose chase down to Maryland... :-(

 

Cod

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No goose chase here Cod. I didn't even notice the Royal Farms in your post.   All I saw was Red Lion and Rt 74 and I assumed you were referring to the recently reopened Gohn's Sunoco station 2 miles south of Red Lion.     My bad.

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