What have you done to your Wheel Horse today?

[squonk 38,940]

And I've pulled pullies off of shafts where the set screw won't come out. 

[Ed Kennell 35,811]

48 minutes ago, squonk said:

And I've pulled pullies off of shafts where the set screw won't come out. 

My set screws came out OK. but the one that was not on the key left a raised pimple on the axle that added friction the complete length of the hub bore.

Next challange.. while I wait for the new seal, I thought I should remove the seat and fender and clean the hydro and change the oil and filter.

So the drain pipe plug is right over the plow frame rod.  Had to drop the frame to get to the plug, then could not get a 1/4" allen wrench in the plug that was damaged and partially closed.

I finally ground a small taper on an old 1/4" drive and was able to drive it in the plug and open the hole.  Then drove in a good hardened 1/4" allen and the plug came  out OK.

 

 

[squonk 38,940]

That's one of the problems with that 2nd screw. Raises the metal around it and binds things up if you have to take it apart again. But a tight hub is better than a hub that won't stay tight. 

[JoeM 7,643]

2 hours ago, Achto said:

Another can o worms

Not really, just the wrong application. 
you can split hairs and might stay tight, but   we only used that stuff on jobs that had to come apart on a frequent basis. 

I seen it many times to much concerned about getting it apart. 

We talk about adding a second set screw

Ask what does that do? You honestly can believe that little cup point on the set screw works on its own.
Simply, the second screw adds tension to the shaft /bore and key areas to increase holding ability. (reduces / precludes movement)  makes a more solid installation. 
adding a lube to the application will only reduce the sets effectiveness. 
On machines not used hard or not used much, no problem. On a machine that’s working hard a lot. Not good. 
This a good conversation. 

[squonk 38,940]

Oil, grease, anti-seize ect have their place. but not everyplace! 

 

We used to have to do PM's on big electric panels. Some of them took 2 guys just to get the covers on and off. They were done at night so the 2nd and 3rd shift guys would do them. One of them insisted on putting antiseize on the funky screw clamps the covers had. 

 

Then of course when we would have to take that panel off to make a repair, Antiseize all over everything! 

Edited April 13, 2022 by squonk

[ebinmaine 63,179]

4 minutes ago, squonk said:

Oil, grease, anti-seize ect have their place. but not everyplace! 

This is very true. 

For instance... You can "grease" your hair for a very particular look reminiscent of days gone by...

But...

Use anti-seize and the effect is completely different.  

 

[Horse Newbie 6,862]

5 hours ago, JoeM said:

NO NO NO Never!

You want it to stay together, not come apart! 

An integral part of the attachment system is the hub surface grip area on the shaft. The set screws apply the tension not the retenson. That is why it is critical for the hub bore and shaft to be on size.

The shaft and hub will hold the best dry. 

 

 

Well maybe I should not have coated the axles with anti-seize , but Wheel Horse told me to…

[Horse Newbie 6,862]

7 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Not so bad on that style hub Ed. 

 

7 hours ago, WHX?? said:

pulling on that flange is not a good practice

Just for clarification, I don’t remember quoting “pulling on that flange is not a good practice “…

Maybe their was a glitch going on…

 

Not saying I wouldn’t have said it, but I sure don’t remember quoting it…

oh well… life goes on…

[rjg854 10,745]

Has anyone contacted the Grease Police 🚓 about this subject? Whether to grease or not that's the question 

[Horse Newbie 6,862]

Anti-seize has no lubrication qualities… it is a rust/ corrosion inhibitor only… no need to call the law

[JoeM 7,643]

1 hour ago, squonk said:

Antiseize all over everything!

I swear one drop of that stuff can paint a 10 x 10 room! And I always touched my face.....tin man look!

[lynnmor 6,796]

@Ed Kennell, now that you have a good mark on the axle where the set screw hits, grind or file a flat on it to prevent the upset metal from being a problem next time.

 

I use a rust inhibitor on the axles, usually my go to is Rustlick 631.  I'm not that opposed to Never Seez products but I have seen them turn into an unrecognizable dry sludge over time.

 

The reason for the second set screw is that the axle to hub is a slip fit, meaning that the hole is slightly larger than the shaft.  With one set screw the points of contact will be the set screw and the opposite side of the hub.  With a second set screw those screws and the side opposite the mid point of the screws.  Think of a three legged stool versus on with only two legs and you will begin to understand the benefit of the three point contact.

 

The oil drain plug in the transmission often stands proud of the housing.  I grind down the plug a small amount and tap the hole deeper to get it at least flush.  Some implements do hit the plug,even if flush, so it is a good idea to cut some clearance in the implement.

[Ed Kennell 35,811]

3 hours ago, lynnmor said:

grind or file a flat

Good idea Lynn.   The set screw should actually lock to the shaft better on the flat than on the round shaft and will definately be easier to take apart.

As far as the neverseeze,, I have used lubriplate for many years for everythng that needs protection from rust.   I used it to protect hydro turbine parts under fresh water and for boat trailer parts that were in salt water several times a day.    It stays put and doesn't wash off.

[kpinnc 10,746]

I use antisieze on the hubs, and on the lugs after re-tapping them. Never had either work loose in 20+ years, but removal as needed is much easier with no damage.

 

Take from that what you will. If you don't use it, you might as well weld all parts and fasteners, because the rust certainly does the same.

[953 nut 51,736]

19 hours ago, JoeM said:

The shaft and hub will hold the best dry.  If the hub and key are in good condition and setscrews are new and torqued to 35 ft/lb the hub will stay put.  Some times they hold too well, that is why there are so many posts about removing hubs. I had to take one to the machine shop and have them put it in the 100,000 pound press while heating it because it held too well dry (and rusty).

 

17 hours ago, Achto said:

Another can o worms.

 

I use never seize on my axles and have not had an issue. The set screw holds more than you know.  That has been my experience too.

 

[JoeM 7,643]

You guys can put anti seize on your bedpost if you want.....just telling you it is backward thinking in this application.

Especially in the case of the heaver 700 lbs + machines, the design is at its limits. 

 

We know the machines were assembled new to tolerances. Tightness and fit first quality. How many times do we see the key way chunked out and ruined? A lot of the machines I have worked on the rear seal starts leaking and then the result is movement in the hub. There have been some comments on this site that say "sure glad that seal was leaking cause that loosened up the hub". All the rotating forces are now on the key and the rest of the system is disabled and viola ruined hub and or axle.

 

I admit they can be tough to get off but they always come off.

 

Just something to think about!

[Ed Kennell 35,811]

5 minutes ago, JoeM said:

Just something to think about!

I am thinking Joe.     Coat it with Iodine for a quick brown weld  or lubriplate  for easy removal when the seal fails in 30 years ?    

[JoeM 7,643]

Just now, Ed Kennell said:

easy removal when the seal fails in 30 years

I got news, at least on my end, it is going to be someone else's problem! LOL

[squonk 38,940]

Just because something looks like it should be lubed doesn't mean it should be.

 

I had to PM a fairly new Hobart commercial dishwasher. We had no service manual for it and Hobart will not give out any info. They want their guys to do it. $$$$ There is this shiny chrome rod that a plastic doohingus rides over. The plastic piece is connected to a crank on a motor. I put some Wd-40 on it to protect and lube it. Fired up the machine and the conveyor didn't work. Pulled the cover back off and that plastic piece is sliding away on the chrome rod as nice as can be. Well that plastic part is supposed to GRAB the rod not slide on it! 

[Handy Don 10,620]

6 minutes ago, squonk said:

part is supposed to GRAB the rod not slide on it!

"Slip sliding away...." 

[ebinmaine 63,179]

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

"Slip sliding away...." 

Hey thanks for getting that song stuck in my head today Don.  😀

[WHX?? 46,808]

15 hours ago, JoeM said:

..tin man look!

So I guess we can still put it on the Hosen's plow handle @Achto ! 

[Handy Don 10,620]

7 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Hey thanks for getting that song stuck in my head today Don.  😀

@squonk's post yanked it into my head so I'm happy to share. At least it's a good tune even though its lyrics are among Simon's most depressing.

 

[squonk 38,940]

Armor-All on a motorcycle seat! 

[TJ5208 1,823]

The storms we had last night did this the wind blew against the doors and the doors leaked water on the bottom.