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help identifying a 416-8

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I was able to nab a 416-8 with single cylinder Kohler, which as sat for a few years.  The PO did not know the year and the machine has no labels except a partial serial number on the engine. That seems to have led me no where.  Are there some give-me mechanical aspects I can use to narrow the year of the machine.  I'd like to be able to get the correct manual.   

It did have the heavy steel mower deck  (42" wide deck) which I have traced as being made by Cub Cadet but only a Identification Number of 421U111 3. I do need to find a top cast piece to hold the center trundle-  its shape is a triangle with three bolt pattern.  Unfortunately, Cub is unable to help without more information than that.

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A Wheel Horse deck built by Cub? Pictures would certainly help. :)

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  If it’s a Kohler K341 it’s a 1985 or 1986.

  It’s its a Kohler Magnum it’s a 1987 or 1988.

  In 1989 they went to the Onan 16 twin.

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:WRS:           Should be a label under the seat with a serial number printed on it.

               Model                      Engine

1985     31-16K801             K341S-71371

1986     31-16K802             K341S-71381

1987     31-16K803             M16S-711523

1988     31-16K804             Same as 1987

hope this helps.

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Here's a couple pics the top white/rust is an IH CUB CADET deck the red one is a 42" Wheel Horse deck that should be the correct one that fits the top one shouldn't be with the :wh: sorry, that last pic shows where to find the model/serial # tag if still legible, Jeff.

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Screenshot_20171227-195611.png

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34 minutes ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

Here's a couple pics the top white/rust is an IH CUB CADET deck the red one is a 42" Wheel Horse deck that should be the correct one that fits the top one shouldn't be with the :wh: sorry, that last pic shows where to find the model/serial # tag if still legible, Jeff.

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Screenshot_20171227-195001.png

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I have a question about decks since you guys are on the subject, and it's the 520h side discharge like the second picture shows. How do you keep the pin in the height adjusting handle from coming out of the hole you select ( looks like it controls the skid wheels mostly) I figured cutting height could be set with the hydraulic lift... Anyways to me it looked like I could loosen the nuts and bolts that hold the brackets for it on the back of the deck and slide the rod over that the wheel supports are on and that would hold it where there would not be enough side to side play to allow the pin to slip out. The previous owner had a radiator hose clamp around it trying to hold it. I'm not going for that. Any body else had this problem with the deck/ skid wheels adjusting lever ? There's a little stop welded on to the round horizontal shaft on the left side. It looks like if I loosen that bracket up and slide it over to the left 1/4 to 1/2 inch, up against that stop, it would take out the little bit of side to side play that allows to adjustment holding pin to slip out...ideas, experience, opinions ?

Edited by Horse Newbie
add more info.

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There should be a compression spring in the assembly to hold the deck height stationary. 

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Yes sir, the spring is there...and to be honest I have not had time to use the machine for myself since I bought it. But with the previous owner having the radiator hose clamp on it, it made me take the clamp off and take a closer look. With it just sitting in the garage floor I could jiggle the deck to try to simulate the effects of movement while mowing and the pin would "pop" out of the hole. I figured the horizontal shaft that goes across the back of the deck was moving to the right allowing it all to get misaligned enough to let the pin and spring assembly not work properly. Looks like if I slide that left bracket over to the left against the stop welded on the horizontal rod, that will keep it from moving to the right and keep the pin in the hole. At first I thought about trying to lengthen the pin, but then it would be too long to come out of the adjustment hole to change the height of the rear skid wheels. Are those skid wheels or are they designed to ride on the ground ?

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Those wheels carry the rear of the deck and are used to set the height.      The plate with the holes does get misaligned and bent as does the U shaped channel that houses the lever with the pin.    They need to be aligned so the U channel rides on the plate.

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Thanks @Ed Kennell...looks like it's just out of alignment. Sorry guys...looks like I got

Edited by Horse Newbie
Off topic
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17 hours ago, rlf said:

I was able to nab a 416-8 with single cylinder Kohler...

   

It did have the heavy steel mower deck  (42" wide deck) which I have traced as being made by Cub Cadet...

I got to see some pics of this setup:popcorn:especially attached to the tractor with belt.  I have bought and sold enough GT’s over the years that I’ve seen people “throw in” an off brand deck saying that it was for a specific tractor but it wouldn’t attach nor would it work as delivered. If this one is attached and functioning, I’d like to see how they made it happen. 

 

Blackbeard is in storage for the winter and I had an extra deck for a Cub 782 floating around so I slid it under there for the winter...60E899ED-162F-4D17-84A5-CFE44A381359.jpeg.b30e61cbc046eb5c8bfd8ad6dbd2c746.jpeg

It looks funny every time that I see it.  

 

 

:baseball:

However, knowing how the two different decks are attached to their respective tractors...

8BAE26DE-B249-4037-A93D-523BE46D3384.jpeg.28afb888eba197092a9e3f7e6291a585.jpeg

I’d like to see the “engineering” done on yours to actually make that work @rlf.  

 

My my recommendation would be to pick up a correct :wh: deck and attachments as it will make your life much easier in the long haul!  If you have a cub deck like the one pictured and it has been fabricated to work on your tractor, then it is from the 1960’s or very early 70’s which is much older than your tractor anyway.  

:twocents-02cents:

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The top picture by WVHillbilly520 looks to be the same shape deck mine being a bit newer and with quick attach hardware.  I will attach pictures of mine tomorrow.  The Model tags for both the 416-8 and mower deck are not there. The PO stated the 416 & mower deck were purchased together.  There does not appear to be any cobbling to fit the deck to the Horse.

 

The muffler on the 416-8 is horizontal.     I did find a faded black with gold lettering electrical system warning label under the hood to the right of the battery (PTO side) but it had no dating (not even a copyright date). I am on the road so unable to access my notes with the partial numbers, I'll be back with those notes tomorrow and will add what I have in a next post.  

Thanks for everyone's interest and assistance.

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We are making progress. I am now doubting the PO.  The deck is a 1968-71 Cub Cadet with quick attach... I was able to get the cast piece off the shelf from a dealer in Seward, NE.   so that part of the unit is operational once I add new blades.  

 

Now details of the 416-8. I am more and more thinking this is an 86 or 87 model.  There are no identification labels where they should be... The one label that can is present and is only partially readable is on the Kohler single and a Serial Number  mostly worn off   what I can make out is 16 (or 18) _5411 (Or could be 6411).  The engine is 16 hp and Auto Compression Release. The left side engine cowl is a simple banjo shape and the muffler is horizontal.   If anyone want specific pictures of the Horse, let me know. 

 

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8 minutes ago, rlf said:

16 (or 18) _5411 (Or could be 6411).

Could that be M16S-711523?   

If the engine has a magneto it is a 1987 or 1988, if it has an ignition coil it is a 1985 or 1986 presuming the engine has not been changed out.

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1 hour ago, rlf said:

The deck is a 1968-71 Cub Cadet with quick attach... I was able to get the cast piece off the shelf from a dealer in Seward, NE.  

That is amazing that you were able to find that part that easily.  Was it NOS on the shelf or did the dealer specialize in used parts for old tractors/mowers? 

 

1 hour ago, rlf said:

If anyone want specific pictures of the Horse, let me know. 

 

I’m still waiting to see ANY pictures of this tractor mower combo!  Owning multiple Cub Cadets and also multiple :wh:‘s, I’m interested to see how the P.O. made this combo of a Cub deck work on a horse.  I’m not saying it can’t be done—I’m just interested to see HOW it was done.  Cubs have a front PTO right behind the grill whereas the Horse has the transverse engine mounted with PTO on the right side.  That cause the belt to be run in a completely different manner...please post any pics you have of it because I can’t wait to see it...:popcorn:

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On 12/27/2017 at 1:56 PM, rlf said:

I was able to nab a 416-8 with single cylinder Kohler, which as sat for a few years.  The PO did not know the year and the machine has no labels except a partial serial number on the engine. That seems to have led me no where.  Are there some give-me mechanical aspects I can use to narrow the year of the machine.  I'd like to be able to get the correct manual.   

It did have the heavy steel mower deck  (42" wide deck) which I have traced as being made by Cub Cadet but only a Identification Number of 421U111 3. I do need to find a top cast piece to hold the center trundle-  its shape is a triangle with three bolt pattern.  Unfortunately, Cub is unable to help without more information than that.

@rlfCan you post a picture of the cast iron piece; the one you said you found that a dealer still had on the shelf. Same sort of thing happened to me years back...was looking for a winch/ bush rack for my 81 Toyota. Found a good deal on a winch then with truck being 10 years old nobody still had a bush rack. Was just about ready to start the " design " phase of building my own rack when I called the same place that told me many times before that they could not get it. I called, guy said let me check the warehouse. He came back. Yeah I got it. Me... Sure it fits an 81 Toyota. Yep... I said put my name on it I'll be there in a few hrs. He said when I told him that many times before they had told me no that they had just done inventory like the day before and found it talk about luck. Moral of the story ? Never, ever, ever, ever give up. I know I'm :text-offtopic: Tim.

Edited by Horse Newbie
misspelled word
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I'm pretty sure he talking about the center section where the front roller attaches and the carriage hangers (eye bolts) are, and BTW that type deck was in manufacture right up to when MTD officially took over CUB CADET as I bought an early '80s IH CC (red paint) just for the 38" cut deck to put on my dad's 1200 CC (Quiet Line) the only thing I had change was the mule drive mounting lugs, Jeff.

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Am in Oklahoma for the week.  I'll try to post next weekend. 

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