Check out my (cough) "new" generator.

[ebinmaine 74,473]

I got this from a co-worker the other day.

It's been in this form and in his possession for (25 - 30?) years, so he thinks.

It appears to possibly be home-made from an implement type alternator from an old Sears GT.

It hasn't run for at least 4 or 5 years until today. I tossed a bit of gas in it and it Wants to run. It does run with the choke mostly closed.

It'll need to be cleaned out and likely will be fine.

 

Can someone help me ID the engine??

It looks like it was originally Copper colored.

I need to order parts for a carb rebuild.

 

I took a few pics all the way around and would be glad to get a specific spot.

I could not find any numbers but also don't know where to look.

 

Look at the "muffler". I have no idea what that is but it sure does NOT muffle anything !

 

Also, Why the big housing and huge drive pulley attached to the engine instead of just 1:1 drive?

The alternator is rated at 3600 RPM. Shouldn't the engine be more than able to do that?

 

 

[Jerry77 1,218]

I'm thinking Montgomery Wards yard products were copper colored, but I thought they used Briggs engines... I have a 2hp horizontal shaft briggs from an old reel mower..

[SPINJIM 1,986]

Briggs used copper color paint for at least a few years on some equipment (including Montg Wards), and the shape of the engine sure looks like a big Briggs.   Looks like an 8 or 10 hp that I once had. 

It has a gear ratio reduction on it.   That's why the pulley is so big , to get the generator rpm's up.   Interesting non-muffler.   

Always interesting to guess the history of some of these setups. 

   Jim

Edited December 9, 2017 by SPINJIM

[ebinmaine 74,473]

5 minutes ago, SPINJIM said:

Briggs used copper color paint for at least a few years on some equipment (including Montg Wards), and the shape of the engine sure looks like a big Briggs.   

It has a gear ratio reduction on it.   That's why the pulley is so big , to get the generator rpm's up.   Interesting non-muffler.   

Always interesting to guess the history of some of these setups. 

   Jim

It does resemble the Briggs on my 1976 International Cadet snowblower.

 

 

What's the reasoning for Lowering the RPM by gear reduction then Raising RPM by huge pulley?

 

I'd Love to know the hows and whys of whomever built it...

 

[SPINJIM 1,986]

6 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

It does resemble the Briggs on my 1976 International Cadet snowblower.

 

 

What's the reasoning for Lowering the RPM by gear reduction then Raising RPM by huge pulley?

 

I'd Love to know the hows and whys of whomever built it...

 

 

It must have had some other application where the gear reduction was required, before it was converted for the generator.   Could have been for a water pump, or some industrial application.   If they had removed the gear reduction, they would have had to find a pulley for a multi-spline shaft.  

    Jim

Edited December 9, 2017 by SPINJIM

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,711]

The engine numbers may be stamped at the very top of the blower housing along the edge where the plug wire comes out

Or along that same vertical edge facing the air cleaner.

 

Garry

[ebinmaine 74,473]

2 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

Or along that same vertical edge facing the air cleaner.

 

OK thanks Garry... I don't see any up top. I'll check the side tomorrow.

[Howie 900]

That shaft on the engine turns about 600 rpm. It is a 6 to 1 gear reduction box.

[953 nut 62,071]

3 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

What's the reasoning for Lowering the RPM by gear reduction then Raising RPM by huge pulley?

Just good old Yankee ingenuity at work, Had the motor from a pump or whatever in one corner of the barn and a generator in another, a heavy frame in yet another.      

[WHX?? 52,861]

Fer sure a Briggs EB.... I have a later model like it on a vintage sno blower with looks to be the same reduction gear. mine doesn't have the up draft carb tho. Probaly a five hp but maybe an eight?   Get a shot of that name plate on the genny if you would. I have one very simiilar that came with my 520 but mine does not have that  230vac outlet. Pretty sure that rig should be spinning at 3600. Dan @Achto can maybe tell me if I'm stupid or not on that. I'm thinkin you could hang that genny off the front of a tractor and make it work if so inclined. One of those brackets  hangs it  off the front attachamatic. Haven' played with it much tho yet. 

Ok so now looking at the similarities of the genny frame yours and mine are  definitely kissing cousins

[ebinmaine 74,473]

53 minutes ago, WHX12 said:

 Get a shot of that name plate on the genny if you would. ......Pretty sure that rig should be spinning at 3600.

You're right about that. I checked it.             

 

 

[c-series don 10,530]

That muffler is for a water pump. When you flip that lever and block the exhaust it would force it out the other end where you see the copper pipe. That pipe was connected to the impeller housing.The exhaust passing by that tube would create a venture effect and suck the air out of the impeller housing to help draft water. When water came out of the small end of the muffler you had pulled a prime. You then closed the valve in the copper pipe that I forgot to mention earlier, flip the lever back to open the muffler up and walla you're pumping water. We had this arrangement on a Hale pump with a Wisconsin engine in my volunteer fire department years ago. I hope I described it correctly and understandably. 

[ebinmaine 74,473]

9 hours ago, c-series don said:

We had this arrangement on a Hale pump with a Wisconsin engine in my volunteer fire department years ago. I hope I described it correctly and understandably. 

Described perfectly, thanks !

That would make some sense too because the guy I got it from was on his local VFD for a while.

I'll have to replace it with something quiet.. the big end is wide open with no sound deadening at all. Looks cool though... maybe another piece of wall art.

[953 nut 62,071]

[ebinmaine 74,473]

43 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

[wallfish 18,624]

Take that generator and hook it up to the front of a tractor with a minimum 8hp, but a 10 or above is probably better. 2hp per 1000 watts and 1:1 pulley size for 3600 rpm. It'll be a lot easier to move around when connected to the B-80 wood hauler.

 

[Sarge 3,470]

That engine is the old Briggs 9hp iron unit with updraft carb . The numbers are either along the edge of the block or stamped into the blower housing - the paint may be hiding them on the outside but most times on the inside they are legible if you don't want to sand it . A buddy's dad has the same engine and parts are tough to find but I did locate a carb kit that fit it on the 'net - wish I could remember the model number of the engine - it's not very long and there were no spec or serial numbers on those . Made in the early 50's from what I remember and they are a low rpm (3,000) high torque engine . His pulls a hydraulic pump on a yard roller that a local welder built back in the 50's - he made 3 of them from what we're told and weigh around 1-1/2 tons . When you pull the rope to start it go slow and steady or you risk hurting yourself , that is a lot of rotating mass in that engine and they don't roll over easily if the rings are in good shape - his roller is a pain to start and with the carb issues it would wear out several guys taking turns trying to pull that rope , lol . His got gunked up from old gas over the years and plugged all of it's jets and mixing tubes - a good cleaning and new gaskets it was easy to tune and will run on the 1st or 2nd pull now . They are known to be very cold blooded , so keep that in mind - not to mention having that updraft carb and very long intake tube .

 

Wish I hadn't lost all my files as I had a full digital manual for those older Briggs engines - they were quite overbuilt for their time and many will still run today despite their age .I keep thinking that thing is a model 9N or something...can't shake the cobwebs loose today but it's identical to the one on the roller .

 

Here's a couple of the N models -

 

 

 

 

 

 

Somewhere around here I have notes on that thing - no idea where right now . Took some real digging to find all the info on it but there is a lot of support for those antique Briggs units .

 

Sarge

[C-101plowerpower 1,606]

2 hours ago, Sarge said:

That engine is the old Briggs 9hp iron unit with updraft carb . The numbers are either along the edge of the block or stamped into the blower housing - the paint may be hiding them on the outside but most times on the inside they are legible if you don't want to sand it . A buddy's dad has the same engine and parts are tough to find but I did locate a carb kit that fit it on the 'net - wish I could remember the model number of the engine - it's not very long and there were no spec or serial numbers on those . Made in the early 50's from what I remember and they are a low rpm (3,000) high torque engine . His pulls a hydraulic pump on a yard roller that a local welder built back in the 50's - he made 3 of them from what we're told and weigh around 1-1/2 tons . When you pull the rope to start it go slow and steady or you risk hurting yourself , that is a lot of rotating mass in that engine and they don't roll over easily if the rings are in good shape - his roller is a pain to start and with the carb issues it would wear out several guys taking turns trying to pull that rope , lol . His got gunked up from old gas over the years and plugged all of it's jets and mixing tubes - a good cleaning and new gaskets it was easy to tune and will run on the 1st or 2nd pull now . They are known to be very cold blooded , so keep that in mind - not to mention having that updraft carb and very long intake tube .

 

Wish I hadn't lost all my files as I had a full digital manual for those older Briggs engines - they were quite overbuilt for their time and many will still run today despite their age .I keep thinking that thing is a model 9N or something...can't shake the cobwebs loose today but it's identical to the one on the roller .

 

Here's a couple of the N models -

 

 

 

 

 

 

Somewhere around here I have notes on that thing - no idea where right now . Took some real digging to find all the info on it but there is a lot of support for those antique Briggs units .

 

Sarge

 

the second video is of one of our members here @bowtiebutler956

the antique briggs' are nice engines i've got two, a model n brasstag with aircompressor from ww2 and an fb8 that was part of a generator unit used on quadmounts

[Sarge 3,470]

I always liked the older Briggs iron block engines - they would run forever and take a tremendous amount of abuse before any issues . A friend is a collector - if I find any they go to him and he makes displays similar to that but most get used on his farm doing whatever chores they were built for as new . Most people today would be floored to find out some of them had an actual kick starter and the thing works well - it was an odd design for sure but pretty cool . That roller the welder built in the 50's is still operating well today and the old N series engine starts easily and has the sweetest sound to it - you just have to weigh above 200lbs or more to get that rope to roll it over...lol .

Wish I could find the notes on that engine and where I found the correct carb parts to repair it...ugh .

 

Sarge

[ebinmaine 74,473]

24 minutes ago, Sarge said:

just have to weigh above 200lbs or more to get that rope to roll it over...lol .

Wish I could find the notes on that engine and where I found the correct carb parts to repair it...ugh .

Hahaha!

Yeah, the size of me is not going to be an issue. Take a look at a couple of my posts riding around on the b80.

😀

My girlfriend's family calls me - Bear.

No worries on the not finding the info. I really do appreciate the thought though.

[wallfish 18,624]

To separate the bowl and carb body, you need to remove the venturi tube which runs up on an angle through the carb. I have a couple of those type carbs, one on an old 1945 6hp ZZ engine and one on a newer Briggs 9hp I/C engine which both run generators. The I/C engine is from the 70s I think.

Pull it apart, clean it with a can of carb spray and put it back together, no parts needed. That's what works for me. You can always make a new gasket if it's needed. The one carb has been done quite a few times since my son-in-law likes to leave gas in it without telling me.

 

[ebinmaine 74,473]

4 minutes ago, wallfish said:

To separate the bowl and carb body, you need to remove the venturi tube which runs up on an angle through the carb. I have a couple of those type carbs, one on an old 1945 6hp ZZ engine and one on a newer Briggs 9hp I/C engine which both run generators. The I/C engine is from the 70s I think.

Pull it apart, clean it with a can of carb spray and put it back together, no parts needed. That's what works for me. You can always make a new gasket if it's needed. The one carb has been done quite a few times since my son-in-law likes to leave gas in it without telling me.

 

[Sarge 3,470]

Yeah - I remember that tube well as it was quite stuck . The guy has used ethanol gas for quite awhile in a lot of his equipment - he's been highly schooled on that subject after I tore into the N series engine and it's fuel system . Took a day's work to clean the tank with a slurry of gravel and sand - it was horrible but the quality of the tin made it survive somehow . Lower section of the carb was not so lucky - it has some JB Weld repairs to make it stop leaking fuel . I know the fuel float valve and seat were pretty much gone - hence the carb kit parts to repair it and I do remember making at least one gasket out of high-temp material I have here , it was fun getting it to run again though . I set him up with a high strength pull cord from some smaller "550" cord to give it plenty of length - almost 8' long so you can just walk and tug it to life . Much easier on him - he's not exactly a young guy .

I can't find the pics of that roller either , they are on one of my older phones I think...

 

Sarge