Bolt ? Small Screw dilema

[jackhammer 550]

I was reading the    " replacing hardware "   thread below and it brought me this question.   - -    Ive got a twin '86 417 twin cyl engine that had most of the baffles off the engine.  I notice upon inspection that most of  the engines   baffles'  small bolt-,screws  are snapped in the engine ..     I've tried easy outs before but these little screws  with the heads missing are quite challenging.     Suggestions on removing them , must be about 12 that are broke in the engine. 

 

Rick

[WHX?? 53,409]

I had the same dilemma Jack but not quite that many! I resorted to drill and and re-tap to a next larger size screw/bolt.

[lynnmor 8,277]

You may need to drill them out and then tap for Heli-Coils making it better than new.

[can whlvr 994]

its tricky because the screw is harder than the block,ive never had any luck other than what was already mentioned

[953 nut 63,195]

If you center punch the broken bolt and start out with a 1/8" drill bit and gradually work up to slightly smaller than the I.D. of the threads (if it is a 1/4-20 that would be 3/16") you will be able to collapse the threads into the hole. Tedious, but effective.

[benji756 342]

You may be able to get some of them out using left handed drill bits

[Pollack Pete 2,273]

Drill out carefully and retap the threads.Use plenty of Never-Seeze when installing new bolts.Not a fun job,but necessary.

[smoreau 658]

All the tin bolts are 1/4-20 and you can use a #7 drill bit and then re-tap there-I also use a 7/32 drill but it is larger but more common. Drilling out broken bolts is very common for me and I do it morn then most. Most of mine at work are stainless 8-18 or 316 stainless and they can be fun to drill. Colbolt drills make all the difference here and if you doing this for the first time, take your time and go slow drilling and you will do fine.  When tapping do not try and tap it all at once or you could brake the tap off and then you have a real problem. Turn it in tell it starts to get tight and then backmitmout and clean off the shavings. Use a good cutting oil and you should be fine. The bolts are just a grade 5 on the tins and and will drill fine with a sharp high-speed drill. Use a little oil when drilling. It will help. Also make sure your tap isn't worn out, this can cause the tap to jam and brake. Just make a plan and take your time and it will work out just fine. 

[Sarge 3,470]

I drill a hole 5/32" for an easy-out , heat the area around the bolt and apply some paraffin wax - those small screws will generally come out as they cool . For general purpose drilling and tapping - look into a can of TD Foamy from Fastenal or elsewhere , the stuff is amazing and helps to make drill bits and taps last much longer - best stuff I've found to date .

Sarge

[can whlvr 994]

to me its never been as easy as it sounds,rarely do the bolts break flat,making center punching hard,thats the very main thing,getting the drill to start in the dead centre,and the problem with easy outs is cheap ones,the bolt broke for a reason,its seized,so be careful with them,i like heat and wax,it helpsto ease the bolt,ive broken easy outs and then your screwed,i weld on nuts when possible,but that's not allways possible

[Sarge 3,470]

One of the best tools I own is a welder , close second is a Dremel and would love to have a Foredom...an original one that is not imported parts .

 

I regularly use a Dremel with a 1/8" straight radius end or ball end carbide cutter to make a starting point in broken fasteners - it eliminates the need for a center punch and putting a divot in the bolt makes it much easier to start the drill bit without work hardening the material from a center punch . In some cases , I've used the carbide bits to completely remove a bolt , drill holes in super-hardened metals and such other jobs - it's one tool I couldn't live without around here . Just used mine again yesterday along with a 1/4" die grinder and larger bits to remove broken fasteners/parts off my old '52 Clausing I'm rebuilding ....that thing is going to be a monster .

 

Sarge

[Jayzauto 89]

I see this as a very common problem on many types of equipment.  I've been doing this type of broken bolt removal for years and agree that it can be tricky.  I've watched others attempt it and realize what I've learned over the years, is not so evident to others.  The hardest problem seems to be the center punch and actually starting a drill in the middle.  What works for me, is grinding the broken fastener and surrounding boss material flat.  I use a mini air grinder with a 2" wheel.  It will smooth and straighten the work area to allow center punching.  Use lighting, and it will be evident where the bolt ends and the boss starts.  Gently grinding it also puts some heat on the fastener, that I hit quickly with some oil.  That seems to aid in the removal.  I also use Left Handed drill bits, as many times as they grab the fastener and it will spin out.  Do enough of them and realize it is fun.  It will help to depth mark the drill bit with masking tape, otherwise, you may "Strike Oil".  Needles to say, you will have another problem at that point.

 

GLuck, Jay

 

 

[jackhammer 550]

Thanks to all for some encouragement and new insights..

 

My previous experiences a year ago on that engines tin screw,  removal has been costly as in a couple feeble attempts,  I had managed to drill off center (as mentioned by Don, Sarge and Jay that the screw doesnt snapp flat off), and also have broken 2  yes - (TWO ) easyouts. So I ended up taking that head to a machine shop a year ago just to fix my screw up..  When the weather breaks I will try all of the above suggestions guys,  because there are probably enough broken screws in that engine.

 

RedSquare  - - you got to love it for all the help that is available.

 

I thank you all greatly for sharing the info

 

Rick

Edited February 27, 2017 by jackhammer

[BaySide1 138]

On 2/25/2017 at 10:05 PM, benji756 said:

You may be able to get some of them out using left handed drill bits

I have a couple of sets of Snap on Cobalt Left handed drill bits for this.

FYI- be careful with the smaller sized cobalt bits. Whereas they cut a nice hole the cobalt is

weak side to side. Get a little too aggressive or start wobbling and they will break making your life

even more difficult.

[Jayzauto 89]

I'd like to add 1 other helpful hint on drilling these bolts out. NOBODY starts off as a master machinist, but when I was young and wanted to show the old guys I knew what I was doing, I would "Practice" on parts from the junk pile.  If this is a one time learning experience, go to a small engine shop or junk yard......There's ALWAYS mistakes there that you can practice on.   AND, it's junk......there's no more damage you can do to it.  The NUMBER 1 tip would be to ALWAYS use sharp bits!!!!  I have a few Drill Doctors* and always have sharp bits.  If you don't sharpen successfully, buy a new bit......It's cheaper that a new block or head.

 

GLuck, Jay

[WHX?? 53,409]

Excellent tip Jay.... practice on an old Briggs instead of that K91!

[BaySide1 138]

Why do you think Doctors are always Practicing Medicine?

They do not do it, They have not been in the Business and have life experience for say thirty years.

They are always practicing.

[WHX?? 53,409]

Lol...I guess we are just practicing horsing around.....ok back to the thread. ..excuse my ignorance @Sarge but what is a foredom?

Edited February 28, 2017 by WHX9

[DennisThornton 4,772]

Foredom is a Dremel on steroids. 

[PSully 61]

 I used my Dremel today to remove an air cleaner support screw (I believe it is a #6 32) from the carburetor on my k181. I used a thin cutting disk to cut a screwdriver slot into the end of the screw. I had to cut into the aluminum of the carburetor in order to get my screwdriver slot deep enough, but that's fine. I then heated the screw with my soldering gun, and tried melting wax into the threads. This is a trick that I heard from a mechanic friend. I heated it more, and gave it shot of liquid wrench, then I heated it about two more minutes. When I was convinced that it was worth trying, I found the right size screwdriver, and I was able to remove the screw pretty easily.

I might not had had to heat it at all because the threads looked pretty clean once I had it out, but I didn't want to chance messing up the slot. 

 

[jackhammer 550]

PSully  good luck with your project 81 .. and

[WHX?? 53,409]

12 hours ago, DennisThornton said:

Foredom is a Dremel on steroids

Thanks Dennis...  it and it does look like a a Dremel on 'roids!

 

There is also the battery trick, there is a thread somewhere here on how to do it.... see if I can find it.

[WHX?? 53,409]

No luck on finding that battery trick thread maybe @gwest_ca can chime in as he had some input on it. Basically it was using a battery or charger to arc across stubborn fasteners to help loosen them. I have never tried it ...yet!

[PSully 61]

6 hours ago, WHX9 said:

No luck on finding that battery trick thread maybe @gwest_ca can chime in as he had some input on it. Basically it was using a battery or charger to arc across stubborn fasteners to help loosen them. I have never tried it ...yet!

I've not heard of that one yet, but you've got me intrigued. Maybe like using electrolysis to get rid of rust?

Broken bolts have been driving men to madness for a couple of hundred years now

[WHX?? 53,409]

3 minutes ago, PSully said:

driving men to madness for a couple of hundred years now

Amen to that!

Yes it was interesting Thread Sully, even had a video of a guy doing it on a rusted in twisted off dog point and it came right out. Be danged if I can find it.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=battery+to+remove+broken+bolt might be in here