doc724 924 #1 Posted October 23, 2015 Last year I used my 314-8 for snowblower duty. It has Dico 23x9.5-12 rear turf tires (the stock tires). I used chains on them with no clearance issues. So now I have a 416-H that I want to use for winter duty. It also had Dico tires on it but I replaced them with Kenda 23x9.5-12 4 ply turf tires (because I was tired of getting punctures from thorns while mowing). The Kendas are a bit wider tread, not rounded like the Dico's. I went to put the chains on the Kenda's (yes I had to make some adjustments to add back in one cross link I removed last year) and I found that the chains will hit the band brake pivots. Not every link, just some. So, I went out an bought a cheap wheel spacer (5/16 inch) and that will certainly give me the clearance. However, now the lug studs (I had replaced the lug bolts with the lug studs) are too short. Also, I found that you cannot get 7/16-20 x 2 inch long bolts threaded full length (per Tristate Fasteners). I have not yet looked elsewhere, but plan to do so. I can also look for a wider hub centric spacer that has studs already in it.So, thinking that the Dico's were different, I took one off the 314, mounted it to the 416, put on the chains and the same interference occurs.The dumb question is: How have others gotten around this problem? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmsgaffer 2,043 #2 Posted October 23, 2015 https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/0167753?r=~|categoryl1:"600000 Fasteners"|~ ~|categoryl2:"600001 Bolts"|~ ~|categoryl3:"600003 Cap Screws 9and Hex Bolts"|~ ~|sattr04:^7/16"-20$|~ ~|attrlength:1490|~That's grade 5, 7/16-20 x 2" full thread. They have a grade 8 but its about 10x the price per each. I have yet to throw chains on my 520, but never had any interference with the blackhoods other than when I had the wrong wheels on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,503 #3 Posted October 23, 2015 You are looking for 7/16"-20 thread. Loctite them to the hub.http://www.dormanproducts.com/gsearch.aspx?type=keyword&origin=keyword&q=double+ended+studs+7%2F16Then add a Chev wheel nut.Garry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shallowwatersailor 3,213 #4 Posted October 24, 2015 Kenda turfs seem to run a bit larger. A few years ago I had my set of rubber chains on the 518xi's Titan 23x10.50 tires and had to take up two extra links on the inside. Then the following year I used the 520xi with Kenda 23x10.50-12 tires and the chains just fit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc724 924 #5 Posted October 24, 2015 John, that is how I did it on the 314 last year. Lots of clearance though. Even with the Dico's on the 416 there is an interference. Not much clearance to the fan and on the brake side, an occasional link will hit the brake pivots. Other thoughts are to pull the hubs (groan) in insert two 1/8 inch (or maybe a tad thicker) washers on each side. If I could precisely position the chain on the inside of the tire, it would not be a problem, but as you know, they do tend to move around while in service. I may just go without and add more weight in the back. It is likely to only be a problem if there is ice on the driveway before the snow falls or if I am stupid and decide to blow a path over the grass to the shed. The solution cannot be as hard as I am making it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
857 horse 2,581 #6 Posted October 25, 2015 I have an 857,,,,square steel hood.....issue was the chains hit the plow frame....The solution?? 7/16X20X2 inch bolts threaded to the head...,,,i got grade 8,,and lug nuts...next i got ford mustang wheel spacers 1 1/2 inch thick....spacers first,,,,on some wheels i had to "open up " the hole in the wheels....(get out the drill),,,lots of room..nothing hits I also dont buy chain tensioners,,,,a 1 foot bungie strap,,,,,both ends in the same chain link.....3 zip ties..at 9,3 and 6....eeezzz peeezzeee,,,,now i need a class on liquid filling my tires,,,,,,,, Just hope it is as easy as eating apple pie,looolo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 38,942 #7 Posted October 25, 2015 Howard, Here's your class on filling tires. i'll trade you a piece of rhubarb for a piece of apple! http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/38496-filling-tires/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmsgaffer 2,043 #8 Posted October 26, 2015 Silly question, but your hubs are flush with the end of the axle on that tractor, right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc724 924 #9 Posted October 26, 2015 Brandon, thx, Yes, the hubs are flush (in fact the left hub is actually out board of the end of the axle by maybe 3/16 inch, which seems to be the standard for the 416H....I had two at one time and they were both identical).BTW, you commented earlier that you had "yet to throw chains on my 520". Is this because you did not need chains on it or because you did not use it for winter duty?With all the 416-H out there, there must be a least a few owners who put chains on them. Either they did not notice the occasional whacking of the chain on the brake pivot or there is some trick they used to prevent interference. I need to find out their trick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shallowwatersailor 3,213 #10 Posted October 26, 2015 Doc, when I re-worked my 312-A a few years ago I found a spacer that was probably 3/16" (less than a 1/4") on one hub. "Hmmm, this was strange," I thought. I found out later that it came from the factory like that to allow chains to be installed. You should be able to find spacers which would be better than washers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmsgaffer 2,043 #11 Posted October 27, 2015 Brandon, thx, Yes, the hubs are flush (in fact the left hub is actually out board of the end of the axle by maybe 3/16 inch, which seems to be the standard for the 416H....I had two at one time and they were both identical).BTW, you commented earlier that you had "yet to throw chains on my 520". Is this because you did not need chains on it or because you did not use it for winter duty?With all the 416-H out there, there must be a least a few owners who put chains on them. Either they did not notice the occasional whacking of the chain on the brake pivot or there is some trick they used to prevent interference. I need to find out their trick. I figured as much, just had to check.I just got the 520H this year and still have lots of fall duty for it. Previously I have been using gear drive blackhoods.I will probably dig the chains out soon to get ready. I have a sloped driveway and unfortunately need the chains to get back up it. I am gonna try some heavily loaded Kenda K502's next year and see if I can get by without the chains, but I'm not holding much hope for that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc724 924 #12 Posted October 27, 2015 Doc, when I re-worked my 312-A a few years ago I found a spacer that was probably 3/16" (less than a 1/4") on one hub. "Hmmm, this was strange," I thought. I found out later that it came from the factory like that to allow chains to be installed. You should be able to find spacers which would be better than washers. John, there are these small, maybe 1/8 inch spacers on both axles on the 416-H. Per the IPL, they are "thrust washers". That is what gave me the idea for putting washers behind the hubs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shallowwatersailor 3,213 #13 Posted October 27, 2015 Doc, when I re-worked my 312-A a few years ago I found a spacer that was probably 3/16" (less than a 1/4") on one hub. "Hmmm, this was strange," I thought. I found out later that it came from the factory like that to allow chains to be installed. You should be able to find spacers which would be better than washers. John, there are these small, maybe 1/8 inch spacers on both axles on the 416-H. Per the IPL, they are "thrust washers". That is what gave me the idea for putting washers behind the hubs. Just to be clear, this was between the wheel and the side of the hub were the wheel bolts on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc724 924 #14 Posted October 27, 2015 John, I did not understand it that way originally. Thx for the clarification. Hmmm, anyone else know about this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,503 #15 Posted October 28, 2015 Part number 106826http://www.partstree.com/parts/toro/parts/106826/It shows up for other models but likely only because the ipl's are shared by similar models as they often do.Garry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Navig8r 132 #16 Posted December 16, 2017 Any good solution ever found for this? I have a 416, and just put my chains on for the first time... EXACT SAME PROBLEM! Keep hitting the brake bands I was thinking a 1/4" wheel spacer and longer lug bolts, but not sure what other problems that may bring. I do not want to modify wheels or machine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jerry77 1,218 #17 Posted December 16, 2017 48 minutes ago, Navig8r said: Any good solution ever found for this Just saw this old thread...I had the same problem on my 516h- the two studs that hold the band on were getting hit by the chain..they were extra long and didn't need to be, so I cut part of them off and shaved off some of the band....gave me plenty of clearance and everything works as it should...just my 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Navig8r 132 #18 Posted December 27, 2017 On 12/16/2017 at 3:59 PM, Jerry77 said: Just saw this old thread...I had the same problem on my 516h- the two studs that hold the band on were getting hit by the chain..they were extra long and didn't need to be, so I cut part of them off and shaved off some of the band....gave me plenty of clearance and everything works as it should...just my Thanks! Exactly what I did, and it works great! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites