Ever needed Axle Shaft replacements in UK?

[Anglo Traction 761]

Yep!, we all know how hard it is to get parts here and in EU , also if you can justify/afford the cost. 

 

Just thought I would ask the question if anyone has either wanted or had to replace the Axle Shaft(s) in the UK/EU?.
If this is so, has anyone purchased new Shaft(s) ?......I would assume most would look for another Transmission for parts or replacement, or try to repair and make do..,.....like the 'Super Skilled' Lars did with his   .
The reason I ask is that I would like 2 new 8spd 1 1/8" shafts myself, as they're not in great condition near the seals. 

  

The price of my new ones (#102764) is off the 'Sane Scale' and have no idea what is included in the 'Kit' stated by Partstree and Toro (1 or 2 shafts? incl seals? who knows?).

 

As I'm already making the Trans - Rear Hitch Pins to WH spec, thought I'd go for machining Splines & Grooves as well.

I'll tear down my spare knackered 8 speed that I want to rebuild and get the Shafts measured for the 'Grade of Hardness'.

I'll require one expensive item of tooling to be able to make my own Shafts and probably most other sizes for WH at a more acceptable cost.

I also have the places local to me for materials and the facilities for Heat Treating to spec.

Just need to cost them up. So I'll let you know when I start cutting the metal.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Anglo Traction

[sorekiwi 761]

I'll be watching this with interest.  I have often thought about making some axles but haven't taken the plunge yet.

 

I'd also been interested in hearing about the Rockwell spec of the shafts.  A couple of years ago I recut some key-seats for the woodruff keys in the axles from a '73 no-name tractor.  They cut fine, but when I tried to do the same thing to some '63 axles I destroyed the cutter as soon as I touched it (it was a HSS cutter).  The "file test" seems to agree that the '63 axles do seem to be a lot harder than the '73 ones.

[C-101plowerpower 1,606]

just orderd some at racinfool40 it isn't that expensive it's just the shipping from the us that kills the price, but this is pretty interesting, what's that expensive item of tooling then? 

 

Koen

[meadowfield 2,754]

Wouldn't it be easier to weld and regrind that area? Or is the engineering challenge more fun :)

[Lane Ranger 11,397]

Interesting story about the Wheel Horse axles.   I met a couple of guys at Winamac, Indiana's "Power from the Past Show"  in 2012 that were teens and younger when one of their dad's who was an employee at Wheel Horse who worked on product development and research brought home a tractor to test.    This was at the time that Wheel Horse has moved it's factory from the north side of South Bend on highway U.S. 31 to the southside of South Bend on Ireland Road.   These kids were asked to run this tractor around and do all the could to it-rough riding, speed, etc.   They also got to take the tractor to the Wheel Horse test hill that was just west of the Ireland Road factory.  A hill still there today that is about a 60 degree or more angle.    The kids complied willingly and the guys I talked to at Winamac told my brother and I that they really put that tractor thru the works.   Turns out they ended up damaging the axle pretty bad - I forget if it snapped off one side or came loose in the transmission casing.  It turned out the supplier to Wheel Horse was not heat treating the axles to harden them as the Wheel Horse specs had asked for when they purchased them.   

[Anglo Traction 761]

I was not too sure where to actually post this thread, so I put it here where most are affected by cost of Import etc.
Equally, I thought about the Tranny and the Puller Forums, as that is where most of the experienced/knowledgeable responses would come from.
So I hoped some would spot it here, and thanks for the responses and input so far......... But if the Mods prefer it somewhere else, then fine with me.

 

Please note that I am a complete amateur and happy to be corrected in my findings etc .
      

I'll be watching this with interest.  I have often thought about making some axles but haven't taken the plunge yet.
I'd also been interested in hearing about the Rockwell spec of the shafts.  A couple of years ago I recut some key-seats for the woodruff keys in the axles from a '73 no-name tractor.  They cut fine, but when I tried to do the same thing to some '63 axles I destroyed the cutter as soon as I touched it (it was a HSS cutter).  The "file test" seems to agree that the '63 axles do seem to be a lot harder than the '73 ones.

Yes Mike, the hardness bit is also my interest/curiosity, also found out that different hardness grades of metal can wear out tools and files very easily.
and that you can I.D. hardness by the formation/brightness of grinding Sparks. 
Axles- As you mention, I noticed there are variations of Axle strength like Heavy Duty ones for Loader Use etc  and from what you said, there are varying Standard types.
 
I think the decision of where the 'Weakest Point' in the Drive Line is to be, is important. I don't want the Tranny Gears/Splines to Strip or the Axle to break or deform. I wouldn't want the Hubs to break either , so I reckon the best part to wear/fail first would be the Woodruff Key/Hub 2nd and so cause the least damage or would be the cheapest/easiest to maintain or repair.
Fixing wallowed out Keyways in the Axle should not be necessary if they are hardened to the right Rockwell or Brinell grade. So with a softer Woodruff Key that would take a good loading ok, but would fail first, is where I want to go with this.
 
The Material I look to use is Silver Steel (Drill Rod) to BS 1407 and has the perfect spec for the job. Supplied in annealed condition to a machineable Rockwell 27 or BHN 285 Max .....(probably not far off of a standard Shaft hardness). 
 
I also searched (no luck) for info about any failures that have occurred like Axles bending or shearing (a good indicator of hardness. But if anyone has stories on this , I would be interested to know of them. 

 

just orderd some at racinfool40 it isn't that expensive it's just the shipping from the us that kills the price, but this is pretty interesting, what's that expensive item of tooling then? Koen

 

Wasn't aware racinfool40 made 'em, but then I didn't ask (note to self ....be aware there is also a Chat Room on here) ..Cost to you?.

Glad you also think it's interesting.

The piece of Tooling I want is a Universal Dividing Head to complement my Milling Machine.

I did all the Indexing and Milling on my Lathes previously and has restrictions.  

 

 

Wouldn't it be easier to weld and regrind that area? Or is the engineering challenge more fun

 Yes , it's the idea of the challenge and I also want stronger new shiny Axles.  Also don't have badly wallowed Keyways so much, but pitted surfaces by the seals..... just not happy with them like that.

 

 

Interesting story about the Wheel Horse axles.   I met a couple of guys at Winamac, Indiana's "Power from the Past Show"  in 2012 that were teens and younger when one of their dad's who was an employee at Wheel Horse who worked on product development and research brought home a tractor to test. ......................  Turns out they ended up damaging the axle pretty bad -  It turned out the supplier to Wheel Horse was not heat treating the axles to harden them as the Wheel Horse specs had asked for when they purchased them.   

 

  Lane, sort of story (and Mike's) response I was hoping read. Able to glean lots from this to help  . I'm quite sure these Axles can be harder than they are and the resilience would be better all round............. All contributions and experienced advice will be gratefully received.

 

Edit- sorry. not sure where the Quote Headers have gone?. Edit #2 ok , they're back

Edited December 12, 2013 by Anglo Traction

[C-101plowerpower 1,606]

I was not too sure where to actually post this thread, so I put it here where most are affected by cost of Import etc.

Equally, I thought about the Tranny and the Puller Forums, as that is where most of the experienced/knowledgeable responses would come from.

So I hoped some would spot it here, and thanks for the responses and input so far......... But if the Mods prefer it somewhere else, then fine with me.

 

Please note that I am a complete amateur and happy to be corrected in my findings etc .

      

I'll be watching this with interest.  I have often thought about making some axles but haven't taken the plunge yet.

I'd also been interested in hearing about the Rockwell spec of the shafts.  A couple of years ago I recut some key-seats for the woodruff keys in the axles from a '73 no-name tractor.  They cut fine, but when I tried to do the same thing to some '63 axles I destroyed the cutter as soon as I touched it (it was a HSS cutter).  The "file test" seems to agree that the '63 axles do seem to be a lot harder than the '73 ones.

Yes Mike, the hardness bit is also my interest/curiosity, also found out that different hardness grades of metal can wear out tools and files very easily.

and that you can I.D. hardness by the formation/brightness of grinding Sparks. 

Axles- As you mention, I noticed there are variations of Axle strength like Heavy Duty ones for Loader Use etc  and from what you said, there are varying Standard types.

 

I think the decision of where the 'Weakest Point' in the Drive Line is to be, is important. I don't want the Tranny Gears/Splines to Strip or the Axle to break or deform. I wouldn't want the Hubs to break either , so I reckon the best part to wear/fail first would be the Woodruff Key/Hub 2nd and so cause the least damage or would be the cheapest/easiest to maintain or repair.

Fixing wallowed out Keyways in the Axle should not be necessary if they are hardened to the right Rockwell or Brinell grade. So with a softer Woodruff Key that would take a good loading ok, but would fail first, is where I want to go with this.

 

The Material I look to use is Silver Steel (Drill Rod) to BS 1407 and has the perfect spec for the job. Supplied in annealed condition to a machineable Rockwell 27 or BHN 285 Max .....(probably not far off of a standard Shaft hardness). 

 

I also searched (no luck) for info about any failures that have occurred like Axles bending or shearing (a good indicator of hardness. But if anyone has stories on this , I would be interested to know of them. 

 

just orderd some at racinfool40 it isn't that expensive it's just the shipping from the us that kills the price, but this is pretty interesting, what's that expensive item of tooling then? Koen

 

Wasn't aware racinfool40 made 'em, but then I didn't ask (note to self ....be aware there is also a Chat Room on here) ..Cost to you?.

Glad you also think it's interesting.

The piece of Tooling I want is a Universal Dividing Head to complement my Milling Machine.

I did all the Indexing and Milling on my Lathes previously and has restrictions.  

 

 

Wouldn't it be easier to weld and regrind that area? Or is the engineering challenge more fun

 Yes , it's the idea of the challenge and I also want stronger new shiny Axles.  Also don't have badly wallowed Keyways so much, but pitted surfaces by the seals..... just not happy with them like that.

 

 

Interesting story about the Wheel Horse axles.   I met a couple of guys at Winamac, Indiana's "Power from the Past Show"  in 2012 that were teens and younger when one of their dad's who was an employee at Wheel Horse who worked on product development and research brought home a tractor to test. ......................  Turns out they ended up damaging the axle pretty bad -  It turned out the supplier to Wheel Horse was not heat treating the axles to harden them as the Wheel Horse specs had asked for when they purchased them.   

 

  Lane, sort of story (and Mike's) response I was hoping read. Able to glean lots from this to help  . I'm quite sure these Axles can be harder than they are and the resilience would be better all round............. All contributions and experienced advice will be gratefully received.

 

Edit- sorry. not sure where the Quote Headers have gone?. Edit #2 ok , they're back

 

i ordered used ones( i gues for the price) it all costed me 90dollar, or 60 something euro's to get it here(2 rear axles and 2 hubs) i've got an adress in the states that loads sea containers and the small parts can go in there

 

Koen

[wheeledhorseman 579]

Richard, with all the multiquoting it's difficult to follow but if the problem is with the condition of the surface where the oil seal runs on the axle then there's a solution I've used several times in the past where the problem of oil leaks esxisted on jeep drive shafts.

 

Look up 'Speedi sleeves', they're a bit pricey but way less than the costs of a new shaft. Essentially they're a very thin machined sleeve that you fit over the shaft with a special tool supplied with them and bond to the shaft with something like loctite. In your case you'd probably have to turn off the lip on your lathe after fitting.

 

They add a few thou to the shaft diameter but this isn't generally a problem with the seals as you get a slightly tighter fit. You can get them online but I get my local bearing place to get them for me. There are so many sizes for both metric and imperial that they order them in rather than hold them in stock - usually only a day or two. An advantage of getting them to determine the exact size I need is that if they get it wrong then there's no problem getting them exchanged.

 

Andy

[Anglo Traction 761]

 Didn't mean to cloud the drift Andy. Aware of the Shaft Sleeves. Found a place in Scotland sometime back that makes stainless ones.

I read up on them, but wasn't enthused with a semi 'Fix' .

Bottom line is I want the 'Proper Job' , 'Spanking New' , 'Pukka' Shafts if I'm to put new Bearings, Seals and poss Gears in this Spare  8 spd Rebuild.

So my option is to make them.