No spark

[slk 4]

Hey guys I just acquired this wheel horse c120   8 speed.

I’m am not getting any spark. I cleaned the points and they looked good. I have no idea how to test anything else. I know where the condenser is and the coil but have no idea from there how to check. 

I have seen someone say there is a switch on the clutch pedal but I have not seen it. If there is I would not know if it is functioning or not. 

This tractor is new to me so I have never started one in my life. 

Need some help. 

Steve

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 12,472]

Welcome to Red Square.

Have a tractor model and serial number off the ID plate? With those we can look at the correct wiring diagrams to help you out.

With a test light or voltmeter see if you have battery voltage at the coil + terminal in RUN and START key positions.

If the + has power go to the (-) coil terminal and when the points are closed you should have 0 volts. When the points are open you should have battery voltage.

[Handy Don 17,344]

Welcome to the forum. Lotsa knowledge here and folks willing to share it!

@gwest_ca is already on it!

[Achto 32,388]

 

 

[slk 4]

Model K301S

Spec# 47421d

Serial. 7354973

Now there is one thing I forgot to mention. The guy who had it before me put a momentary toggle switch in for an ignition switch. I do not mind buying the right switch. I honestly have no idea if he did anything right. 

The tractor is really in great shape other that this starting issue. 

Steve

[WHX?? 57,851]

41 minutes ago, slk said:

have no idea if he did anything right. 

Pretty much par for the course. Your new to tractor is gonna be no exception. Pics of the tractor would help immensely along with an ID plate off the tractor its self.   Might be under the dash or on the hood stand on the side. Rest assured there is no   we can't help out.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 12,472]

1 hour ago, slk said:

Model K301S

Spec# 47421d

Serial. 7354973

Now there is one thing I forgot to mention. The guy who had it before me put a momentary toggle switch in for an ignition switch. I do not mind buying the right switch. I honestly have no idea if he did anything right. 

The tractor is really in great shape other that this starting issue. 

Steve

Wheel Horse used the 47421d spec number from 1973-1977.

Kohler made your serial 7354973 in 1976.

If the engine is original to the tractor best guess is it is a 1976 or 1977 model tractor.

Click on the picture in this link. It will take you to a picture of the ID plate location.

 

[slk 4]

I will have to take a better pic tomorrow but I do see the id tag on it now. it is in this pic but unreadable with this pic. will get more pics tomorrow. 

[oliver2-44 11,708]

That pool noodle on steering wheel is a first for me 

 

Nice looking tractor. 

Does it crank?

If it does, see if you have voltage (12v) to the plus side of the coil.  If you do, that says the switch and clutch safety switch are working.

On my C160 the clutch pedal has to be depressed all the way down for the switch to engage.

Edited 18 hours ago by oliver2-44

[slk 4]

The noodle was a first for me also. It will be coming off. I will see about the voltage tomorrow. So just put the negative lead on the meter on metal and the positive lead on the + side of the coil?  

Yes it does crank just fine. 

Edited 18 hours ago by slk
more info

[ineedanother 2,821]

3 minutes ago, slk said:

So just put the negative lead on the meter on metal and the positive lead on the + side of the coil?  

(-) to a proven ground, straight to the battery is unquestionable, and yes, then to (+) side of coil in "run" and "start" key positions.

 

IMO the c-120 might be the best find. Good power, 1 1/8" axles, and adjustable lift depth for ground engagement (tillers and such). Looks like you have a nice Ohio Steel cart there too! Nice! 

 

[parsonsponyz 404]

Looks like you're in good hands with all the information already given.

[slk 4]

Here is that ID tag info

61- 12K802-13542

6063

Edited 7 hours ago by slk
added more info

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 12,472]

Thank you for posting those. Have added your data to the serial number records and that is in a file that contains SN in the title.

Here are 19 files in no particular order for the 61-12K802

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/search/?q=61-12k802&quick=1&type=downloads_file

 

You should have a switch controlled by the pto lever. With the pto off 1/2 of that switch powers the ignition coil. Sometimes playing with the pto lever in the OFF position will close the switch. Wear in the linkage may be showing it's face.

With the pto ON the seat switch powers the ignition coil so operator required in the seat to close the switch. Not a good thing but the previous owner may have disconnected this switch.

[slk 4]

Well like I stated I have no idea what procedures you have to do to start this thing. It is all new to me but it really appears to be a very cool machine. I really would like to get it going. 

[slk 4]

This is what I was talking about with the ignition switch what the previous owner did. I have no idea if it will work right or not 

[953 nut 68,627]

The momentary toggle switch probably takes the place of the START position of your ignition switch. You said there is no spark, I presume the engine will turn over from the switch, is this correct?

If the engine will turn over from a switch then we can continue the trouble shooting and go on from there. Is the PTO Lever pulled back toward you? If not, pull it back and try again. Once you get the engine to turn over we will look for ignition.

Connect a small insulated wire from your battery  + to the  + terminal on your ignition coil then crank the engine over checking for spark. If there is no spark disconnect the condenser from the coil and recheck. If there is no spark disconnect the temporary wire to the battery, remove the cover from the points, reconnect the temporary wire and use a plastic or wooden stick to open and close the points, you should see a spark. presuming you have a spark at the points disconnect the temporary wire and connect the condenser to the - coil terminal, reconnect the temporary wired and repeat the test at the points. There should still be a spark but probably a bit less.

Once we have ignition spark we will go on to the rest of the wiring. Presuming you want to go original wiring you will need a  103990 ignition switch

 

[slk 4]

Is the pto lever the big stick looking lever that raises the mower deck that is on the left side ?

[pfrederi 21,081]

5 minutes ago, slk said:

Is the pto lever the big stick looking lever that raises the mower deck that is on the left side ?

 No it is on the right side,  ]

 

Think you should download and read the operators manual click on fuzy picture to down load it.

 

 

[Handy Don 17,344]

Download and read through the OM (operator manual). That’ll be a huge help getting to know your machjine and what all the parts are called.

As for starting, get ready:

- be in the seat

- depress the clutch pedal

- position the PTO lever (on the right next to the hood & steering wheel) all the way back toward you

- move the choke lever up

- move the throttle lever to midway

 

Then:

Turn the key to the RUN position

Press the momentary START switch and the engine should start cranking.

As soon as the engine starts to fire, smoothly move the Choke lever downward (over about 3 seconds) and release the start switch. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Handy Don

[slk 4]

Ok did all of the testing. The starter does turn the tractor over but no spark. pto lever pulled back. 

So I made up the jumper from positive battery to positive side of coil. Still no spark. Disconnected the condenser from negative side of coil. Still no spark.

Disconnected the jumper and opened up the points cover. Connected the jumper back to positive side of coil with the condenser still disconnected. I moved the points with a wooden popsicle stick and got spark. 

I connected the condenser back to the negative side of the coil and tested the points again and got spark. 

 

Did I make any progress??

[Handy Don 17,344]

8 minutes ago, slk said:

 

 

Did I make any progress??

Yes, for sure. You proved the electrical system can generate a spark.

Now to get the spark to happen at the right time and place!

 

It sounds, now, like the points are not being opened by the engine (you were able to do it manually without zapping yourself--though you’d have had company if you had ) 

My next step would be to clean the points and then check/reset the points gap. This isn’t hard but I don’t know the exact procedure for your engine.

@gwest_ca, which manual will he need for the point setting sequence?

 

[sqrlgtr 3,737]

17 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

That pool noodle on steering wheel is a first for me 

 

Nice looking tractor. 

Does it crank?

If it does, see if you have voltage (12v) to the plus side of the coil.  If you do, that says the switch and clutch safety switch are working.

On my C160 the clutch pedal has to be depressed all the way down for the switch to engage.

if shes been in the pool points may be wet.