93 314h no start / electric issues

[Cee245 859]

Trying to fix some of the issues with this tractor to make it at least usable again. I've been going over some obvious wiring issues and am making progress.  (Im not great at electrical, but i have a multi meter/desire and the schematic.  (Thanks @gwest_ca)

 

Back story is this came with another 314h package I bought for my Sil and I was given this as payment for getting hers and servicing etc. Her's is nice, this one... not so much.  It has about 1677 hrs on meter and it did run pretty good 2yrs ago when put under tarp. Its really not all that bad, needs some tlc/grease and a little bit of money to be serviceable) I have the bigger rear tires and tubes and other parts so it can come together decently. 

Last week when my 16yr old and I tried to get it running,  we turned ignition to ON and used push button start that turned it over but the ignition started smoking and melted the loose red wire/ plug to it.  (It looks like the starter wire that goes to solenoid that is kinda under battery and goes to )  

 

Here is where i am at Currently,

 

I eliminated the push button and fixed the red wire to ignition switch. (I ordered another switch/plug and am currently using a switch from same model tractor) to troubleshoot.

It won't turn over with the switch so I jumped the starter solenoid and it turns over well but my spark tester shows NO spark. 

 

I realize I have a couple issues, but im hoping to get a little direction from here.  

 

Pictures of course...

 

 

 

 

Tools

 

Fixed red wire to ignition switch 

 

 

Solenoid I mentioned

 

 

 

Push start removed

Edited Sunday at 12:30 PM by Cee245

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 12,418]

You did download the 4 page "Demystification Guide" file for this model?

 

[Cee245 859]

Update: I do have spark when jumping solenoid. And yes I have that diagram.  

Edited Sunday at 01:20 PM by Cee245

[953 nut 68,178]

Is the 25 amp fuse good? oil level good? PTO off? Clutch / Brake depressed? Shift lever (motion control) in neutral?

If you apply 12 volts to the PURPLE wire on the solenoid will the solenoid close and the engine turn over?

[Cee245 859]

Thanks for the reply @953 nut

Motion control is neutral, parking brake on, pto off position. 

 

25 and 15 amp fuse is and tested continuity good.  I applied 12v to the purple wire terminal on the solenoid and it just clicks and doesn't turn engine over.  

 

I jumped the solenoid and it does start and run.  So I am thinking a safety switch? 

 

I temporarily spliced the seat safety wire that was broken anyways to see if it was that.  No go. Then I did take my meter and put on ohms and tested each safety switch i seen.  Which one is for the clutch/brake?

... 

i heard a noise on the meter on every one so I think they are OK?

 

I have most panels off so its easy to get to and fix stuff properly (just need some confidence in what im doing)

 

I dont care about the safety switch LIGHTS, but I do care about keeping the other safety switches working. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 01:23 PM by Cee245

[Bill D 3,063]

9 minutes ago, Cee245 said:

Thanks for the reply Richard 

Motion control is neutral, parking brake on, pto off position. 

 

25 and 15 amp fuse is and tested continuity good.  I applied 12v to the purple wire terminal on the solenoid and it just clicks and doesn't turn engine over.  

 

I jumped the solenoid and it does start and run.  So I am thinking a safety switch? 

 

I temporarily spliced the seat safety wire to see if it was that.  No go. Then I did take my meter and put on ohms and tested each safety switch except for the parking brake one...  i heard a noise on every one so I think they are OK?

 

 

 

 

 

Sounds like a bad solenoid to me.

[953 nut 68,178]

2 minutes ago, Cee245 said:

I applied 12v to the purple wire terminal on the solenoid and it just clicks and doesn't turn engine over.  

 

             So I am thinking a safety switch?     Glad to hear you tested the safety switches and confirmed they are good.

If the solenoid does not respond to 12 volts applied to the purple wire then either the ground wire on the solenoid is bad or the solenoid itself is bad. The purple wire feeding the solenoid won't do anything if the solenoid isn't grounded but the photo of yours shows multiple grounds being joined at that point so it is probably the solenoid.

[Cee245 859]

Ok, I just replaced the solenoid with a known working one and its acting the same. 

 

Clicks when putting 12v to purple wire terminal.  

Edited yesterday at 03:17 PM by Cee245

[Cee245 859]

Looks like I gotta find another ground to clean?  I did 3 that I seen. 

[ineedanother 2,776]

Something doesn't make sense to me. Is the battery fully charged? You can also verify grounds by checking for continuity between those ground contacts and the negative terminal on the battery.

[Cee245 859]

I used a battery charger set to 12v to touch purple wire terminal, it clicks, does not turn over.  Then hooked charged battery back up... same symptoms... click no turn over. 

 

I can arc the solenoid with screwdriver and it starts and runs that way. I switched out the solenoid from my nicer 314h of same model etc and it is acting the same.  (BTW, thats a pita with 2 bolts on solenoid lol) 

 

Could I have the wires crossed on the solenoid?  I have it hooked just like the schematic shows though. 

 

I do have the push button switch as shown above, but isn't that sorta the same as arcing the solenoid with a screwdriver?  Also the reason for this post is to fix that lol.   

 

I will check ground continuity asap.  

 

 

[953 nut 68,178]

The solenoid is a switch.  That switch is activated by electricity flowing from one of the small terminals to the other small terminal through a coil of wire inside the solenoid producing a magnetic field that pulls the switch closed. If the solenoid clicks that is because not enough electrical current is flowing through the magnet coil. This can be caused by bad battery or a loose or corroded connection from either of the small terminals which acts as a resistor thus reducing the voltage at the coil inside the solenoid. A pair of small jumper wires can be used for testing with one connected to each of the small terminals of the solenoid and one connected to the battery + and the other connected to the battery -. It doesn't matter which one connects to which terminal. 

 

[Cee245 859]

Thanks for that info... 

I made some more repairs and made some progress and getting closer!

 

Ok, took lots of time looking over the wiring schematic diagram. 

 

-Verified 12v on battery. Have charger as well. 

 

-It NOW turns over when applying 12v to Purple wire terminal on solenoid. Not sure exactly what I did to get to this point yet...(took apart all connectors i could see and cleaned with small wire brush). They did look good as far as corrosion, but one must've been hooked wrong or needed a better connection.  The plastic connection housings are getting brittle. 

 

A few other things I did...

 

-The 2 bolts holding solenoid from my other 314 are verfied tight. Same symptoms as original one. 

 

-  I verified continuity on small red power wire off solenoid to red wire on ignition switch, also black ground wire on solenoid to black wire on switch. Purple wire from solenoid to red wire on switch. 

-Also several other wires to the plug that goes to the indicator light board. So far I have continuity on every wire I've tested. 

 

-I also fixed ignition switch plastic boot and the 5 wires are confirmed correct order/spots according to diagram. 

 

-I got the new ignition switch and plastic boot connector and verified switch works on my other 314h.  I had switched solenoids and the one from this 314 works good on my other 314.

 

So..... solenoid is verified working and switch is verified working, so it has to be a bare/broken wire somewhere I'm thinking? Or...?

 

I'm not exactly sure where to go from here other than checking over my work but, I'm suspecting a couple things or it Could be a rookie mistake...I'm not above being completely wrong on stuff that I'm sure of! 

 

I'm not far from taking the main harness out and going over it all.  I'll just want to make sure it goes back with the same bends etc. 

The kohler is nice since it gives lots more room than my 416 Onan.