Gear

[Retired Wrencher 6,581]

I have been noticing a new noise coming from the K241 lately A friend told me yesterday it sounds like balance gears are bad. He sent me a picture of them. Can I still use this engine just around the house?  I am not a master mechanic. so it is above my pay scale. Let me know your thoughts.

[953 nut 65,285]

They are also known as grenade  gears for a reason,   and you don't even have to pull a pin.

 

 

 

Edited 17 hours ago by 953 nut

[ebinmaine 78,320]

What year is the engine? I understand that not all 10 horse had balance gears.

[ri702bill 11,874]

Please refresh my memory as to the procedure to remove the balance gears. I recall it being more surgical in nature than a simple unbolt & remove. The gears get purposely destroyed in place, correct??

[Gasaholic 361]

48 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

Please refresh my memory as to the procedure to remove the balance gears. I recall it being more surgical in nature than a simple unbolt & remove. The gears get purposely destroyed in place, correct??

Nope. removal of balance gears involved popping engine off the frame and drop the oil pan, then you need to access the snap rings that retain balance gears on studs .. it's tricky to get the gears off the studs with the crankshaft in place, but do-able , make sure to remove the spacers that sit under the gears .. what typically happens to them is they wear into the snap rings which then pop off and allow gears to wander into the path of the crank counterweights where they turn into grenades and often blow a hole through side of the block.  that or needle bearing failures allow gears to wobble on stub shafts and hit the crank counterweights. it is often esier and cheaper to simply remove them than to fix them, but they're also fixable and done right they can last another 20 plus years .. however I don't recall the K241 having balance gears? (they're located on starter side of the engine opposite camshaft)  but if your gears and definitely the cause if the noise, then they're not long for this world.. rarely do they hold out more than a few more hours of engine operation when they start to get noisy enough to be really noticeable.... and when they do let go, you're probably going to need a new engine block at a minimum 

[oliver2-44 11,401]

It can be had to get the snap ring off the rear gear.

I've had good success placing a cold chisel between gear teeth and giving it a sharp "rap"

Gear splits in 2-3 pieces and lifts out

Then there's room to remove the snap ring, bearing and spacer.

The gear rides on a pin and some like to drive the pin from the outside to the inside for gear removal.

Then drive pin back in. 

 

[pfrederi 20,275]

Spec # 46333 used in !1056 and 1057 did not have balance gears  (Variation 1)

What is the Spec # of your 241

 

 

[ri702bill 11,874]

Thanks. Yeah, that chunk o' gears looks like it has it's OWN balance issue buzzing around the pin!!

[ebinmaine 78,320]

1 hour ago, Gasaholic said:

you need to access the snap rings that retain balance gears on studs .. it's tricky to get the gears off the studs with the crankshaft in place, but do-able , make sure to remove the spacers that sit under the gears ..

 

 

I am no authority. Take this for what it's worth. To the best of my knowledge on a K341- you can NOT remove the inner balance gear without either driving the pin straight through it as suggested by @oliver2-44, or removing other internal components like crank and cam.

 

I've done this removal on two 16 horse engines so far and I did the pin drive method.

[pfrederi 20,275]

18 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

Thanks. Yeah, that chunk o' gears looks like it has it's OWN balance issue buzzing around the pin!!

 There are two gears and the imbalance on each is offset by the other 

[Retired Wrencher 6,581]

6 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

What year is the engine? I understand that not all 10 horse had balance gears.

1967

[Retired Wrencher 6,581]

4 hours ago, pfrederi said:

Spec # 46333 used in !1056 and 1057 did not have balance gears  (Variation 1)

What is the Spec # of your 241

 

 

Sorry for the late reply. I can get this info to on Tuesday.

[pfrederi 20,275]

3 minutes ago, Retired Wrencher said:

Sorry for the late reply. I can get this info to on Tuesday.

  No problem ...if this is the engine on your 1057 and is original it is a 46333 no balance gears

[Retired Wrencher 6,581]

1 minute ago, pfrederi said:

  No problem ...if this is the engine on your 1057 and is original it is a 46333 no balance gears

Do you think it is ok to use lightly? Or just find another K241.

[ebinmaine 78,320]

Just now, Retired Wrencher said:

Do you think it is ok to use lightly? Or just find another K241.

 

 

That can't be answered without knowing if you actually have balance gears

[Retired Wrencher 6,581]

5 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

 

That can't be answered without knowing if you actually have balance gears

OK I will leave it in a corner of the garage till we can figure this out. May be in the summer pull the engine take the pan off and see what I have. 

[ri702bill 11,874]

3 hours ago, pfrederi said:

 There are two gears and the imbalance on each is offset by the other 

In theory, until one departs and the other (and more innards !!) decide to follow....

No thanks, I'll stick to my K161's and K181's.

[pfrederi 20,275]

Lots of things in engines can start making noises other than balance gears which I really do not believe you have.  One guys opinion of the noise as a balance gears is not totally reliable.

 

If the engine is 46333 no balance gears...I seriously doubt some previous owner added them in...

 

Parts Tree, Rehlko (Kohler) websites and my old paper Parts listing no balance gears in the 46333.  Might want to start looking for other causes.  Can you make a recording maybe some on here could recognize it.

[sqrlgtr 2,615]

What kind of noise, knock, ping, rattle,,,,?

[oliver2-44 11,401]

10 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

 

I am no authority. Take this for what it's worth. To the best of my knowledge on a K341- you can NOT remove the inner balance gear without either driving the pin straight through it as suggested by @oliver2-44, or removing other internal components like crank and cam.

 

I've done this removal on two 16 horse engines so far and I did the pin drive method.

Correct, remove pin or crack/split gear with chisel.