Docwheelhorse 2,651 #1 Posted February 29 Hello Everyone, so I saw an ad for Summit Racing introducing there ZDDP High Zinc House Brand Oil.... price isn't terrible at $9 a qt... they offer all the basic flavors 5/30, 10/30, 10-40, 20-50 SAE 30 only comes labeled as BREAK IN oil... so what's the deal---can you run break in oil all the time or does the formulation somehow offere less "protection" to allow moving surfaces to mate in? Sorry if this is a dumb question... I'll probably just order the 20-50 and pour it in all my flat head stuff. But I'd like to know anyways... Thanks Tony @peter lena you seem to be the resident oil guy so I'll tag you here... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 67,016 #2 Posted February 29 Last I knew Summit had an excellent tech department although I haven't dealt with them for several years now. I don't have any intention to go away from the Kinetix that I've been using but I'd be very curious to know what Summit thinks is the difference between break in oil and everyday oil, so to speak. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Achto 27,412 #3 Posted February 29 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Docwheelhorse said: price isn't terrible at $9 a qt. I just run Rotella 30wt diesel oil. Plenty of zinc and only $18 to $27 per gallon depending on where you get it. Don't really recommend running 20-50. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Shell-Rotella-T1-SAE-30-Conventional-Heavy-Duty-Diesel-Motor-Oil-1-Gallon-API-CF-2-CF-SL/958899660?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&wl13=3004&adid=22222222277958899660_117755028669_12420145346&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=501107745824&wl4=pla-306310554666&wl5=1016367&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=local&wl12=958899660&wl13=3004&veh=sem_LIA&gclsrc=aw.ds&&adid=22222222237958899660_117755028669_12420145346&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=501107745824&wl4=pla-306310554666&wl5=1016367&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=local&wl12=958899660&veh=sem&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-vebpvPQhAMVUklHAR02QA6hEAQYAiABEgJLKfD_BwE Edited February 29 by Achto 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter lena 8,552 #4 Posted February 29 @Docwheelhorse initial engine break in is something that I have experimented with ,my personal experience , is on used engines that have obviousely been neglected , like a 5-30 Castrol oil , with added RISLONE zinc , 4 oz. for 2 qtrs. of oil , have found that combo , to have a terrific operational running ease free up , use ROTELLA 30 WT , WITH ADDED RISLONE ZINK , OVER SUMMER , cleaning effect , protection , zero smoke , regularly , keep in touch , very smooth running . over winter , use CASTROL , 5-30 semi synthetic , RISLONE zinc , love the near instant cold start , running ease , zero smoke . oil changes are like black coal oil , hot / thorough . think that 20-50 is just too heavy for these engines , not only that , but in any colder weather , that temp heat up , would be much slower = smoke . that 5-30 CASTROL also has the lowest , burn rate / heat up phase , that makes cold weather starts , much easier , lots of hours on on my oil experiments , also like Lucas , climbing gear oil , been very good , pete 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ri702bill 8,220 #5 Posted February 29 Second on the Rotella non synthetic. Straight 30 weight in the summer, 10/30 in the winter. About $22 a gallon at Wallyworld........ 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 40,912 #6 Posted February 29 I run 30W Rotella all year. 857 starts instantly even in winter. 3 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SylvanLakeWH 25,381 #7 Posted February 29 1 minute ago, squonk said: I run 30W Rotella all year. 857 starts instantly even in winter. No issues... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ri702bill 8,220 #8 Posted February 29 1 hour ago, SylvanLakeWH said: No issues... I have a detached unheated garage, w/o electricity. No battery tender, Just want to ease the winter starting..... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 54,839 #9 Posted February 29 2 hours ago, SylvanLakeWH said: No issues... Sylva: you have electric Wheel Horses how much oil do they take? 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SylvanLakeWH 25,381 #10 Posted February 29 57 minutes ago, 953 nut said: Sylva: you have electric Wheel Horses how much oil do they take? Now now... I still maintain one dino-juice C-105. It's the one that started it all, so it isn't going anywhere... I've been on hold with Wheel Horse corporate for two years now trying to speak with someone about where the oil fill and drains are on my E-141's and the A-60... they don't show up on the owners manual graphics... 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpinnc 11,795 #11 Posted February 29 I'm guessing "break in" oil gets past certain regulations on sales. Especially true for the zinc additives in a non-diesel engine... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
8ntruck 6,945 #12 Posted February 29 sounds about right. Zinc additives have been 'discourgaed' by the government for some time. Zinc additives improve the extreme pressure performance of the oil. That is an important need on our old Kohler and Onan engines using old school bearing and flat tapped technology. 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpinnc 11,795 #13 Posted February 29 (edited) 31 minutes ago, kpinnc said: I'm guessing "break in" oil gets past certain regulations on sales. Especially true for the zinc additives in a non-diesel engine... Summit racing does this on a few things. Like the "water jug" fuel jugs (which are awesome BTW) that specify "not for use with flammable liquids"... I think it's part of the business model, being racing specific, thier items are not for regular highway use. Word play keeps them out from under certain regs. Legally at least. Edited February 29 by kpinnc 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 40,912 #14 Posted February 29 When you decide to put your time and money into an engine you should do everything possible to protect that investment. Choosing the right lubricant will help protect valve train components, bearings, and cylinder walls during initial startup and “running-in” of an engine. Brad Penn accomplishes this by blending zinc, phosphorous, and a specific detergent package. Zinc and Phosphorous both function as anti-wear and when blended together form the compound ZDDP (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate). Additionally, soap elements in detergents work to prevent seizure of components such as piston rings. It is important however, to keep in mind that more zinc is not always better for break-in oil. At a certain point, too much zinc can create a surface condition where the rings will not be allowed to seat. On the other hand, too little zinc may promote excessive wear during break-in. Brad Penn stresses that their formula of ZDDP, a specific detergent package, and Pennsylvania Grade Lubricants base stock results in a break-in oil that works synergistically together to prevent wear. Furthermore, it is not recommend that other additives be used with Brad Penn products. Lastly, following a completed break-in cycle, the oil should be drained immediately. Do not use break-in oil during normal operation of your vehicle. In most *** applications we recommend switching to a synthetic oil after using Brad Penn break-in oil. https://performancebyie.com/blogs/ie-auto-blog/brad-penn-break-in-oil-faq 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RED-Z06 2,212 #15 Posted March 1 9 bucks a quart is...up there, still a bit less than Z-Rod though if Zinc is your goal. I still buy a case of Amsoil OE every year for my car, great oil at $7/qt Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeM 7,871 #16 Posted March 1 There are so many questions and comments concerning lubricants, seems like a good topic for it's own bullet line under the wheel horse section? As far as break in oil in splash lubed engines, i honestly don't really see it. When we did race engines the upmost area of concern was the "new" camshaft. You could wipe a lobe easily with the wrong oil or low oil pressure. One reason to prime the system with the oil pump. Crank bearings we pretty well fitted and ran on oil film, once again prime was the key. Little concern there. Rings, cylinders were cross hatched to hold oil and the rings were changed way before cylinder wear was evident. We started them, had a mild shake down running up to temp a few times, changed out the break in oil and let it eat! I like the diesel oils and like full synthetic in these small engines. I check and change oil on a regular basis. But you have to admit, some of those old Kohler flat head engines ran for years and years on just regular motor oils and good maintenance. Aside from the issues with oil, one thing that has ruined more engines then we think.....dirt inhalation. (dusting) Plus being air cooled, being dirty / not maintained. Oil manufactures spend a lot of money getting you to use their products. The only brand I would recommend a person stay away from is the "lack of" brand. Check it, change it, maintain it! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sailman 1,291 #17 Posted March 1 I just stick with the tried and true....KISS kind of guy. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RED-Z06 2,212 #18 Posted March 1 3 hours ago, JoeM said: There are so many questions and comments concerning lubricants, seems like a good topic for it's own bullet line under the wheel horse section? As far as break in oil in splash lubed engines, i honestly don't really see it. When we did race engines the upmost area of concern was the "new" camshaft. You could wipe a lobe easily with the wrong oil or low oil pressure. One reason to prime the system with the oil pump. Crank bearings we pretty well fitted and ran on oil film, once again prime was the key. Little concern there. Rings, cylinders were cross hatched to hold oil and the rings were changed way before cylinder wear was evident. We started them, had a mild shake down running up to temp a few times, changed out the break in oil and let it eat! I like the diesel oils and like full synthetic in these small engines. I check and change oil on a regular basis. But you have to admit, some of those old Kohler flat head engines ran for years and years on just regular motor oils and good maintenance. Aside from the issues with oil, one thing that has ruined more engines then we think.....dirt inhalation. (dusting) Plus being air cooled, being dirty / not maintained. Oil manufactures spend a lot of money getting you to use their products. The only brand I would recommend a person stay away from is the "lack of" brand. Check it, change it, maintain it! Its true, oil today, even the cheapest shadiest oil...is probably 3x the best premium oil from the 70s. You can't even find oil trashy enough to meet the manual recommendations. That said, oil is cheaper than a rebuild. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter lena 8,552 #19 Posted March 1 @JoeM totally agree with you on the , CHECK IT , CHANGE IT , MAINTAIN IT , idea , what a concept ! snoopin around , always check my trans oil , when I top up tank , do a regular look over , having made a myriad of small changes / improvements in all my stuff , keeping in touch , lets you see / sense a change . like the regularity of solid running , any time I see another tractor , and get the chance , just visibly go over my change points / comparison . often say , its hiding in plane site , guy up the street , stopped me on a road ride, wanted to look over the c-85, was amazed at how easily everything moved / functioned . was telling him its just basic ,maintenance , his cables were frozen solid , trans oil was watery white/ rust , on and on , oil was black and barely on the stick ? told him some ideas , he looked confused . and so it goes , pete 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ANTPER 203 #20 Posted March 1 You put the proper spec oil in, and a good brand name. Run it for the recommended manufacture break in period on that oil, drain replace done. I Don't believe in using a break in specific oil. Just another product oil companies can sell you. Maybe I'm wrong? Just my opinion. Great topic though. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RED-Z06 2,212 #21 Posted March 1 The only rule on oil i really abide by is no synthetic for break-in. Other than that, I warm up a fresh rebuild and then put it to work, they need a load 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wild Bill 633 845 #22 Posted March 2 Interesting read on oil. https://540ratblog.wordpress.com 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
