Is ethanol free fuel really worth it?

[rjg854 10,817]

Nonethanol is like Frank's hot sauce, I use that sh?t in everything.  My generator sat for probably 6 months with a full take of regular gas, no additives, and when I needed it, it started on the 1st pull.  I can get it at a couple of different places, locally.  For the extra cost, I consider it insurance.

[squonk 39,196]

Tractors that only run at shows or sit almost all summer (plow tractor, Power King loader)  are stored with VP 4 cycle from Tractor Supply. I use maybe a gallon a year. 

[wallfish 16,069]

2 hours ago, ri702bill said:

IF you decide to go there with your own empty gas can and have "The Gas Barrista" pour some into your can

Gas Barista

If you're close enough to a marina they were selling non E fuel but I haven't been fishing down there for a while now

 

If the e10 is used quickly it isn't as much of an issue is my experience. Once winter is underway I run e10 pump gas in blower tractor because it gets used then the last tank is always the E free. Hasn't been an issue starting up after 7,8, or 9 months of storage with fuel in it using that canned gas.

Same process for the summer engines, pump gas when they're used a lot but always stored with canned gas.

It's easier and less messy to fill the tank than it is to drain them.

 

[RED-Z06 2,146]

26 minutes ago, TractorEd said:

Affordable non ethanol fuel is not readily available near me.  I would use it if it were.  Project Farm and Taryls experiments are telling.  No current fuel additives are going to make the ethanol problems go away.  The higher the octane the better for longevity of the fuel.  Use non ethanol or run it out and drain/clean when not in use.  Add oil to fuel pump and carb after draining/running out to keep diaphragms pliable and protect metal from moisture.  

 

More philosophically, eventually, everything man made breaks.  You WILL suffer no matter what.  Use non E, pay more until stuff eventually breaks.  Use E, pay less for it, but pay more for parts and your time to fix more frequently.  I think the latter is more frustrating, causes more sadness and accelerates aging due to stress.

Octane is a fuels resistance to ignite from heat and pressure before the spark, high compression engines will compress the fuel so hard that it detonates before the spark.  An onan flathead for example will run between 6.5:1 and 7:1 compression; which is way under the roughly 9.5:1 where you would even remotely start to have any detonation problems. High octane fuel doesn't add any power, not burn cleaner, or hotter, or cooler...its the same fuel as the cheap stuff except it has more anti-detonation additives to raise the octane rating. Being harder to ignite, high grade fuels can actually hurt performance on low compression applications.  But as far as lasting longer, the base additive package between low and high octane (mid is hi/lo blended at the pump), is the same.

[Sailman 1,143]

20 minutes ago, wallfish said:

 

If you're close enough to a marina they were selling non E fuel.

 

The gas stations near marinas and lakes were some of the first to start carrying non ethanol for all the outboard motors. Try searching those out in your area if possible.

Edited January 20 by Sailman

[Sparky-(Admin) 19,707]

15 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

Do a " @Sparky " and make a NH run. 

Or bring cans when you head up here.  

 
Read post #11 in this one: 

 

[ebinmaine 63,618]

14 minutes ago, Sparky said:

post #11

@PWL216

 

There's ya mathmetizing. 

 

Thanks Sparky.  

[daveoman1966 3,637]

To locate E-Free gas in your area, just google 'ETHANOL FREE GAS NEAR 16433' (my zip code).  Several places popped up for me: Sheetz, QuikFill, etc...all within 12 miles.  

I've read many posts here that use additives.  Not a fan and I've shown a pic of why. I'd SO MUCH rather pay a bit more for real gas and forget about it....skip the additives (and cost), skip the 'run till empty', and skip all the other nonsense.  Just buy and use REAL GAS. 

A side note:  My Tractors are 1972 thru 1977 or so.  I don't believe the engineer boys at Kohler or Tecumseh designed these engines to run on anything but PURE GAS.        

[lynnmor 6,873]

2 hours ago, RED-Z06 said:

Octane is a fuels resistance to ignite from heat and pressure before the spark, high compression engines will compress the fuel so hard that it detonates before the spark.  An onan flathead for example will run between 6.5:1 and 7:1 compression; which is way under the roughly 9.5:1 where you would even remotely start to have any detonation problems. High octane fuel doesn't add any power, not burn cleaner, or hotter, or cooler...its the same fuel as the cheap stuff except it has more anti-detonation additives to raise the octane rating. Being harder to ignite, high grade fuels can actually hurt performance on low compression applications.  But as far as lasting longer, the base additive package between low and high octane (mid is hi/lo blended at the pump), is the same.

 

I agree with what you said but will add another tidbit.  One of the additives used to increase octane MAY be ethanol making the use of the higher octane gas a poor choice.  As always, there are exceptions.

[wallfish 16,069]

5 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

 

I agree with what you said but will add another tidbit.  One of the additives used to increase octane MAY be ethanol making the use of the higher octane gas a poor choice.  As always, there are exceptions.

There was a youtube video of a guy showing how to remove ethanol from the gas using water. Then at the end after all the BS, he says now you need to raise the octane and proceeds to dump in an ethanol based octane booster! LoL

 

[ebinmaine 63,618]

14 minutes ago, wallfish said:

There was a youtube video of a guy showing how to remove ethanol from the gas using water. Then at the end after all the BS, he says now you need to raise the octane and proceeds to dump in an ethanol based octane booster! LoL

 

 

Him are ain't bright 

[formariz 11,904]

This conversation can be like discussing politics. Everyone has different opinions and beliefs and there is merit to most of them if one is to be open minded and reasonable.

 Here I have no option to what gas I use. All that I can say is that in all of these years I never had fuel related issues. I have here a 550 that hasn’t had the carburetor removed in 15 years and starts and runs well all the time. Same with a 653. They sit most of their lives. . I make sure bowl and tank are drained. On units with two piece tanks I just leave enough to wet gaskets and stabilizer. Just last week someone asked me to borrow my splitter with a Tecumseh engine. It’s been in woods under a tarp for two years. No fuel. Added fuel it started on second pull. Any fuel left in carb for long periods without use it’s going to be a problem. I do replace my fuel lines periodically as a matter of maintenance. I only have found cracks on the outside so far when inspecting them. Clean fresh fuel and making sure all gas is out of unused machinery is done religiously here. I have no option as to what fuel to get. 

Edited January 21 by formariz

[wallfish 16,069]

2 minutes ago, formariz said:

if one is to be open minded and reasonable.

Intellectual Humility

I came across this article a few weeks ago and found it interesting

https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/what_does_intellectual_humility_look_like

[ebinmaine 63,618]

53 minutes ago, formariz said:

maintenance

The key word. 

As important as the key stone to an arch. 

[formariz 11,904]

2 hours ago, wallfish said:

Intellectual Humility

I came across this article a few weeks ago and found it interesting

https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/what_does_intellectual_humility_look_like

Thank you John. Great article. Should be required reading. It so touches on and reflects what we are living through today. 

 A little story if I may. In my 20’s while under the tutelage of the most influential person  in my life working as a assistant foreman in one of the most prestigious woodworking firms in NYC we hired a Chinese carpenter recently arrived in this country. The man’s methods were so different and strange that they actually bothered and somewhat angered me. I wasn’t alone feeling that way. During a conversation regarding it, with my mentor, he calmly listened to all my grievances. When I finished expecting to be agreed with, to my surprise he merely asked how were the end results of his work. Sure enough even though up to that point I had been total blind to it, I now had to answer that his work was not only impeccable but also very efficient. Of course the next question was “so what is the problem?”. Now I just chocked and altogether lost the ability to even answer him. He proceeded to elaborate telling me that the only problem there was me and everyone else who were so blinded by our beliefs that only our ways were right that we couldn’t see a great thing when right in front of us. Be tolerant and respectful of others and their ways and you may learn something. 
  And so another life lesson was learned from a man that would always look into my eyes as he answered others. I miss and think of him every single day. 

[lynnmor 6,873]

7 hours ago, wallfish said:

Intellectual Humility

I came across this article a few weeks ago and found it interesting

https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/what_does_intellectual_humility_look_like

I found it to be hogwash. 🐷

[wallfish 16,069]

27 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

I found it to be hogwash. 🐷

And I understand your point

[ebinmaine 63,618]

16 hours ago, formariz said:

This conversation can be like discussing ........

 

Everyone has different opinions and beliefs and EXPERIENCES  and there is merit to most of them if one is to be open minded and reasonable

 

I added a word above based on my own learning curves over the last few years. 

A myriad of variables causes exponentially that many experiences by folks. 

 

Great words of wisdom in your story above too. I've tried to learn more from others over the past decade than previously in my life.  

 

 

I had a friend in my late teens who's dad was quite a character. 

When incorrect he'd acknowledge it every time. But not before reminding us,

"I'm NEVER wrong. I thought I was wrong ONCE, waaay back in 1973. But it turned out I was MISTAKEN."

 

 

I learned a LOT from that man. One of my more influential mentors. 

[Horse Newbie 6,955]

 

[Rob J. 1,940]

Ethanol is garbage. It attracts moisture. I will not put it in my small engines period. Cars that go through it regularly is just ok but doesn’t justify the price difference in large volumes. With ethanol you have to drain tanks, lines and carbs if it’s going sit awhile or you’re asking for problems in the fuel system. Non-ethanol 91 octane can sit all winter and be fine in the spring. 

[ohiofarmer 3,164]

5 hours ago, Rob J. said:

Ethanol is garbage. It attracts moisture. I will not put it in my small engines period. Cars that go through it regularly is just ok but doesn’t justify the price difference in large volumes. With ethanol you have to drain tanks, lines and carbs if it’s going sit awhile or you’re asking for problems in the fuel system. Non-ethanol 91 octane can sit all winter and be fine in the spring. 

 

 

Well, that is correct. I watched the entire video of Taryl with ten identical engines with different additives in each one. He started each one once a month. The engines sat in a cold barn outside.He also put a fuel sample from each test in a glass jar with a tiny hole punched in it so he could observe the evap rate and what appearance changes the fuel experienced in a year. All the engines were brand new Robins. He started them on the first of every month

   That fuel in those jars really lost a lot of volume. The regular unleaded gas performed better than any additive..I run a lot of fuel because my yard is large. The compromise I am happy with is to run ten percent in the high fuel use times and the last chores of the year get done with ethanol free. i also fill the tank all the way to the top and put a seal over the top to minimize evaporation. My genset always has ethanol free in it. even then, starting up the active ones once each month or two is not a horrible idea that. a small amount of old school outboard motor oil does not hurt either, although that is just based on observing that chain saws do not seem to attract deposits. Said chain saws always get the fuel dumped out for fresh before use because they can set along time without use and who knows how much stuff evaporates out..

  Those plastic bags from the grocery store seem immune from the effects of gasoline, but keep them away from sunshine or ozone.

   Probably the worst engine as far as turning carbs green are the honda clones from Harbor Freight. They have this tiny dirt catching bowl situated before the fuel enters the carb and it must be designed as a water condensate trap. Also the Chinese metal content formula may not be the best to store fuel.

   When it comes to storing " dry" project motorcycle tanks, I just rinse and shake a fifty percent oil and gas fuel through them and let them open to air out all the gasoline, It really doesnt cost much to do this to every tank in the fleet..Same for the saved metal Wheel horse tanks.for future project use

[ClassicTractorProfessor 5,289]

I run non ethanol gas in everything. Luckily for us here in Oklahoma the price difference isn’t much. E10 at the grocery store and truck stop in town is $2.69/gallon as of this morning, drive another 1/2 mile on in to town to the quick stop and can get 100% gas for $2.99/gallon. So I have just made it a policy that ALL gas comes from the quick stop in town. With the exception of Courtney’s Jeep Grand Cherokee, everything we own that is gas powered very well may sit without starting for months at a time, have yet to have a starting issue using 100% gas. We have engines that get ran twice a year at two different shows, one in May and the other in September, gas stays in them year round and they always start every time, the Farmall C gets ran hard through the summer, but sits in the barn all winter and I know it will start for me come spring when it’s time to start mowing again. Had to do some welding last weekend when the temps were hovering right around 0, the old Onan on the Miller popped right off, first time it had been started in months. For me the extra 30-40 cents a gallon is worth it. 
 

On the flip side of that coin, when I bought my boat 2 years ago the water pump was bad, it sat for a few months until I got around to fixing it. First time we took it out couldn’t get it to start, got back to the house and discovered quite a bit of water in the fuel. Upon talking to my Dad he had been buying all his fuel from the grocery store here in town, E10 blend, that’s the only explanation I have for how water got into it was by the ethanol sucking moisture out of the air. Completely drained and cleaned the fuel system and have not had any trouble since. 
 

 

[Ed Kennell 36,155]

42 minutes ago, ClassicTractorProfessor said:

E10 at the grocery store and truck stop in town is $2.69/gallon

WOW,  $3.399   here in the PeeAaa.

[ebinmaine 63,618]

40 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

WOW,  $3.399   here in the PeeAaa.

Bryce got it cheap don't he.....

[lynnmor 6,873]

1 hour ago, Ed Kennell said:

WOW,  $3.399   here in the PeeAaa.

We in PA pay $.39 more tax than OK, so that is the major factor in the difference.

 

I was in Lancaster County today and saw $3.079 so the price is actually the same as OK, the tax is the devil in the details.