416H no start

[JerryLook 73]

I have a 1990 416H. I use it for various things in the summer, and snowblowing in the winter. When I first got the tractor a couple years ago I had some corrosion issues that kept it from starting. It has run well since I fixed those issues. 
 

Anyways, today I went to start it and it cranks, but won’t fire. I last used it about two weeks ago and it ran great. Today it’s colder though (10-15 degrees). 
 

I pulled the fuel line off before the filter and verified the fuel pump is working. I also pulled the spark plugs and you can see fuel vapor shoot out each time that cylinder should fire. So I think it’s getting fuel just fine. 
 

I checked for voltage at the coil and get battery voltage there with the key on (13.2vdc). So that would imply to me that the safety switches are all working correctly. 
 

Am I looking at a bad coil here? Any other ideas? It’s an Onan 216 engine. 
 

Thanks guys 

 

 

 

 

[ri702bill 7,360]

Jerry - I believe the 416H uses the troublesome 9-pin Connector under the hood. Check it for signs of corrosion or overheated melting....

[davem1111 1,934]

Do you have an in-line spark plug tester?  Or have you tried pulling a plug, laying it against the head to ground it, and cranking to see if there is a spark?  (make sure you don't have a lot of gas fumes when you do this...)

[JerryLook 73]

It does have the 9 pin connector. I pulled it apart earlier to make sure all the contacts look good. I think the power to the coil goes through that connector. 
 

I don’t have a spark tester. I was hesitant to check for spark with the plug because it was pretty gassy when I pulled the plugs out. Maybe I’ll wait a little while until it evaporates off and try that. 
 

I’d also like to take the wires off the top of the coil and clean the posts, then try to start it again. It could be a bad connection there I guess. 

[rmaynard 14,922]

I have a 416-H that is hard starting in frigid temps. I even put a check valve on the pump. Still cranks and cranks. So I take the air cleaner off, shoot a little starter fluid in the carb, and voila, it starts. I'll figure out what's going on when it's not 12 degrees.

[Sailman 1,134]

Many time when i have had a small engine (lawn mower, weed eater) not start I begin with a new spark plug even if the one on the engine was not too old. Surprised at the number of times that alone did the trick.

[JerryLook 73]

I don’t have any either on hand so I haven’t tired that. But I’ll pick some up. It’s worth a shot (get it?) lol. 
 

This tractor has always fired up without issue. The only difference I can see now is that it’s colder than it has been. 

[JerryLook 73]

I’m not sure how old the plugs are in it. I haven’t replaced them since I’ve owned it. They’re NGK. I’ll check out the P/N tomorrow. 

[Lagersolut 613]

39 minutes ago, rmaynard said:

I have a 416-H that is hard starting in frigid temps. I even put a check valve on the pump. Still cranks and cranks. So I take the air cleaner off, shoot a little starter fluid in the carb, and voila, it starts. I'll figure out what's going on when it's not 12 degrees.

 

I have a C-101 same thing - always was grumpy in cold temps - learned long time ago little Valvoline carb cleaner boost it comes right up .

[RED-Z06 2,128]

It was 16⁰ this morning in Florida here and my 416H was a bit hard to start as well.  Onans flood really easy, normally you'll see fuel splash out the carb if its choked, if its not splashing fuel out it probably isnt getting any through the main jet.  I usually put my hand over the carb for a couple revolutions...seems to suck out any blockages and pull fuel through.

[Ed Kennell 35,903]

A couple squeezes of my primer bulbs and they all light up on the first turn.

[lynnmor 6,802]

It appears that fuel delivery isn't the problem since you have fuel pumping at the filter and vapor at the spark plug holes.  You should have checked for spark while the plugs were out. 

 

All my Onans start the same way, throttle up 1/4 of the way and choke full on, then crank till it fires and be ready to push the choke off .  With your vapor the engine might be flooded, so pull the plugs and let it air out for a long time, then check for spark, an old plug with the gap opened to about .050" is a good spark tester.

[8ntruck 6,399]

Do not use automotive starter fluid in your small engines.  It works, but produces very high cylinder pressures capable of breaking something.

 

I use carb cleaner as a starting fluid in my small engines.

[ohiofarmer 3,158]

well,a pittsburg inline spark tester is still 4.99. at Harbor Freight.. onans of a certain age can be afflicted with electronic ignition problems that come and go. A new genuine Onan module is 159.00. I saw a video on taryl fixes all concerning ignition module . He has a video on replacing the module with aftermarket module, but he prefers OEM points and condenser. I replaced one twenty years ago with OEM for maybe 30.00

 Search Taryl replace onan module and it will link to our forum with some strong opinions on his skills. Thats up to you what you do. Also linked within those search terms is a simple way to replace the points and condenser as mentioned above.

  

[JerryLook 73]

Ok so here’s what I did. I found another page here on the Wheel Horse forum where it showed the manual and went through the steps to test the ignition system. I removed the coil and brought it inside my house to warm up. Once it was room temp I tested the primary and secondary coils. Both tested within spec. 
 

Then I tested the ignition module on the engine. That also tested within spec. 
 

Finally I replaced the spark plugs. It has NGK TR5 in it and I happened to have a set of those. I put everything back together and tested for spark, and got it. 
 

At that point I knew I had fuel and spark and thought the engine should run, so I tried it. I had my battery on the charger so it had a good charge. I had to crank the engine for a while but it did start, and runs like it usually does. I was finally able to snowblow the driveway. 
 

So what gives? Was it a bad connection somewhere that I fixed? An intermittent problem that will come back on the next snow day? I hate when something works again and i didn’t actually find the problem. 

 

 

[8ntruck 6,399]

Might be that warming the coil up was the magic bullet. Dried it out possibly, or closed an open, or opened a short? 

 

Then again, I've had a new spark plug fix a hard to, or no start engine.

[Ed Kennell 35,903]

56 minutes ago, JerryLook said:

I had to crank the engine for a while but it did start, 

Do your battery and starter a favor.....add a primer bulb for instant starts.

[JerryLook 73]

Yeah I think something I did fixed it, but I’m not sure what. Could have been the plugs I guess. 

 

@Ed Kennell

Where do you put the primer bulb, and how do they hold up in very cold weather? Are you putting it before or after the fuel pump?  

[Ed Kennell 35,903]

1 minute ago, JerryLook said:

 

Where do you put the primer bulb, and how do they hold up in very cold weather? Are you putting it before or after the fuel pump?  

No problem in winter.    Before the fuel pump.    I put mine where I can reach them from the seat.   Usually near my left foot.

[SylvanLakeWH 24,229]

 

Here's where mine is... easy reach with left hand.

 

 

[Handy Don 10,656]

13 hours ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

 

I”m thinking for yucks that there outa be one of these on each of the E tractors! 

Conversation: “What’s that bulb thing for?” “It's to get the electrons moving after its been sitting for a while or if it’s cold out."

Edited January 20 by Handy Don

[SylvanLakeWH 24,229]

 

 

Gas tank to hold the electricity... Spark plug to fire them electrons off... muffler to stifle their cries as they are discharged...

 

oh the possibilities... 

[lynnmor 6,802]

15 hours ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

 

Here's where mine is... easy reach with left hand.

 

 

There is limited space with an Onan engine, keep in mind that you need to remove an oil filter that is full.  Ain't saying it can't be done but choose a location carefully.  The newest Fleetguard oil filters are longer and it takes a magician to change them. 

[JerryLook 73]

I need to replace the fuel line from the carb all the way back to the tank anyways. So it would be a good time to add the primer bulb. 

It doesn’t have any leaks yet, but looks like it’s getting pretty old. 
 

I appreciate the help guys. 
 

Oh btw, what Fleetguard oil filter P/N are you using? I think I have a Fram on mine right now. It was something they cross referenced from the Onan filter I took off the engine last time. 

[lynnmor 6,802]

1 hour ago, JerryLook said:

I need to replace the fuel line from the carb all the way back to the tank anyways. So it would be a good time to add the primer bulb. 

It doesn’t have any leaks yet, but looks like it’s getting pretty old. 
 

I appreciate the help guys. 
 

Oh btw, what Fleetguard oil filter P/N are you using? I think I have a Fram on mine right now. It was something they cross referenced from the Onan filter I took off the engine last time. 

Be sure that the new fuel line is ethanol resistant, most are nowadays.

 

Use Onan 112-0800 or Fleetguard LF3339, Fram filters are to be used only on destruction derby cars.