Steering column cut/re-weld advice needed

[davem1111 1,934]

After buying some relatively expensive roll pin punches and cobalt & carbide drill bits, hammering and drilling for what seems like hours but may have been only a total of 30 minutes, it still feels like time to give up on that approach. I think I've managed to remove all the roll pin that's not inside the shaft part itself, but it still won't budge. I don't have access to a press.  So, I guess I'm looking at cutting the column and re-welding it.

 

Where is the best place to cut? a few inches above the gear at the bottom?  I was advised that it's best to cut on an angle, to make the re-fit easier. I'm also thinking I should grind it a little flat on 2 sides and weld a bit of flat steel on after re-joining it, to reinforce it.  I searched the forum and found a couple references for example here:  

 

 

I may try a bit more to get it to move but I'm really getting weary of that approach.  Would love to hear anything regarding cutting/re-welding. Thanks!

 

[peter lena 8,090]

@davem1111  https://www.google.com/search?q=rod+to+rod+connection+sleeve&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS866US866&oq=rod+to+rod+connection+sleeve&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIGCAEQRRg80gEJMTU5NDNqMGo0qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8  , my steering wheels have been off , most important is a solid wall brace against column , size to size flat punch , like KROIL for the worst , sticking areas . also wire brush out original hole , never seize pin back into place . this type of shaft sleeve , could be drilled , bolted in place . Pete   

[squonk 38,987]

Cut above the gear , Reweld. Smooth the bead down with a flap wheel some filler for the pits and toss some paint on er. 

[cleat 4,990]

Maybe make a score line along the shaft before cutting so you weld it back in the same place.

[ri702bill 7,363]

2 hours ago, cleat said:

Maybe make a score line along the shaft before cutting so you weld it back in the same place.

Good advise for radial orientation.... I usually spin the shaft 180 degrees to get the seldom used teeth to do the work......

Steering wheel, once removed, comes out the same..... maybe not in this case....

[Bill D 1,620]

Pictures?  Different style wheels require different removal methods.

[davem1111 1,934]

1 hour ago, Bill D said:

Pictures?  Different style wheels require different removal methods.

 

This is coming off a 417-H.  The whole tower has been removed and is being replaced with the tower and console from a 520-H. Hence I need to be able to separate the wheel from the column or split the column to get it out of here and into the new tower/console:

 

 

I just popped the emblem off and applied some PB-Blaster from that side - hadn't thought of doing that. But it looks very rusty in there. If I have time I may see if I can brace it properly to try to hammer the column out from this side, maybe with a little heat but I don't want to melt any of the plastic.

 

[Bill D 1,620]

6 hours ago, davem1111 said:

 

This is coming off a 417-H.  The whole tower has been removed and is being replaced with the tower and console from a 520-H. Hence I need to be able to separate the wheel from the column or split the column to get it out of here and into the new tower/console:

 

 

I just popped the emblem off and applied some PB-Blaster from that side - hadn't thought of doing that. But it looks very rusty in there. If I have time I may see if I can brace it properly to try to hammer the column out from this side, maybe with a little heat but I don't want to melt any of the plastic.

 

Are you sure you got the pin out all the way?  I think I posted in another thread how I remove those wheels.  That's my favorite steering wheel.  All my tractors have them.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Bill D

[davem1111 1,934]

9 hours ago, Bill D said:

Are you sure you got the pin out all the way?  I think I posted in another thread how I remove those wheels.  That's my favorite steering wheel.  All my tractors have them.

 

No, what I said is I think I managed to remove all the pin in the metal part of the steering wheel (the boss?) from both sides, judging from the depth the drill bits or punch go in, but the drill bits won't go any further and the punch won't budge whatever is left.  Can't tell for sure if there is any pin still protruding from the shaft into the boss. 

 

[Pullstart 59,828]

Is the gear welded or pinned to the shaft?  If it’s welded, could you cut the burn and reweld?

[pfrederi 17,168]

I have had success driving the steering wheel down the shaft.  First clean the shaft below the wheel. Then put the shaft in your vice with end hard against the vice arm.  Then I used an appropriate size deep well socket to drive it down.  Then you can clean up the rusted end drove out any remaining pin.  I can't find the original pics but this sort of gives you an idea of what I mean.

 

 

[Digger 66 3,477]

45 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

 

 

 

 

LOVE that tea-kettle !

[davem1111 1,934]

21 hours ago, Pullstart said:

Is the gear welded or pinned to the shaft?  If it’s welded, could you cut the burn and reweld?

 

Hmmm.... I dunno.  Think it would be easier to cut and re-weld here?

 

[Pullstart 59,828]

Yes, yes I do.

[Lee1977 6,245]

You need to chech for length before you weld it up. The 520 dash is higher then the C-175, might need to add a few more inches. 

[davem1111 1,934]

27 minutes ago, Lee1977 said:

You need to chech for length before you weld it up. The 520 dash is higher then the C-175, might need to add a few more inches. 

 

Ah, good point. I hadn't thought of that! 

 

...well, the steering column is from a 417-H, but still... good to check. If I were a tall guy, I'd probably want to add more height to it anyway. But I'm not.

Edited October 9, 2023 by davem1111

[WHX?? 46,879]

@Ed Kennellcut one and just used a coupling to put it back together. 

[davem1111 1,934]

51 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

@Ed Kennell  cut one 

 

Glad I wasn't present for that....   

 

 

51 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

@Ed Kennellcut one and just used a coupling to put it back together. 

 

Yeah, I think that's the safest approach to getting it back together straight and maybe extending it a little if needed.  I think the Drawn Over Mandrel (DOM) pipe that someone suggested (maybe in my other customization thread that this is for) is what I need to get, just need to get the right ID pipe so it fits snuggly with no wobble, then a few welds to hold in place.

 

[sjoemie himself 2,920]

Hi Dave. I just found your thread.. is the roll pin in a boss on the underside of the steeringwheel?

If so you might not want to use to much heat like you said to prevent the wheel from melting.

As for drilling a roll pin, that wont work. The pins are too hard to drill properly. Also because a rollpin is split the drillbit tends to grab the edge of the pin and break the bit. But this is info you probably already knew.

 

For driving out the rollpin, get the shortest, thickest punch you can fit and the biggest hammer you dare use.

In my experience long thin punches tend to act as a spring instead a punch. Penetrating oil and heating and quenching are your friends. Time is your friend aswell. Go at it for a bit, then soak it with penetrating oil overnight and try again.

 

Cutting and welding is certainly doable but getting the shaft nice and straight can prove to be tricky.

Clamping the pieces inside a piece of angle iron when welding can help. Straightening after welding might still be necessary. 

 

Greetings from the Netherlands, Mark 

[Lee1977 6,245]

1 hour ago, davem1111 said:

 

Glad I wasn't present for that....   

 

 

 

Yeah, I think that's the safest approach to getting it back together straight and maybe extending it a little if needed.  I think the Drawn Over Mandrel (DOM) pipe that someone suggested (maybe in my other customization thread that this is for) is what I need to get, just need to get the right ID pipe so it fits snuggly with no wobble, then a few welds to hold in place.

 

You can get a 3/4" ID x 1" x 2" seamless spacer from Home Depot a Hillman 5 pact for $11.64. Lowes has the same spacer $12.00 doesn't say anythong about a 5 pact.

[WHX?? 46,879]

2 hours ago, sjoemie himself said:

As for drilling a roll pin, that wont work. 

@Achto says a masonry bit does the job but still a rite of passage. 

Can't heat Mark ... will melt the wheel. 

[davem1111 1,934]

2 hours ago, Lee1977 said:

You can get a 3/4" ID x 1" x 2" seamless spacer from Home Depot a Hillman 5 pact for $11.64. Lowes has the same spacer $12.00 doesn't say anythong about a 5 pact.

 

I took the easy route since I have Jungle Prime and ordered a 4-pack from there - will be here Thursday.

[Ed Kennell 35,904]

5 hours ago, WHX?? said:

@Ed Kennellcut one and just used a coupling to put it back together. 

Been awhile, but as I recall, I welded the sleeve/coupling to the lower shaft and pinned the upper shaft.    Made for an easy assembly/disassembly.

[wallfish 15,946]

1 hour ago, Ed Kennell said:

Been awhile, but as I recall, I welded the sleeve/coupling to the lower shaft and pinned the upper shaft.    Made for an easy assembly/disassembly.

I've used these on a few. Welded and pinned the top. welded both shafts, and replaced the upper 3/4 shaft with a keyed shaft too.

Little more expensive but thick and heavy duty

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-Transmission/Shaft-Couplers/Keyed-Splined-Hex-1-Piece-Solid-Couplers/3-4-Shaft-Coupler-1-1563-C.axd

[sjoemie himself 2,920]

12 hours ago, WHX?? said:

masonry bit does the job

Well that's a new one for me! Never tried.. might give it a try when the occasion arises.

 

Sometimes you just gotta try.. my GF drilled seven 8mm (5/16") holes in a brick wall with a steel drillbit before wondering why it took so long to drill a hole.

Honestly I'm impressed she got that far