310-8 ignition Module

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,278]

Does anyone know the air gap for a 1989 310-8 with magnum engine. ordered new module but can't find the specs on gap between module and flywheel. No spark , checked all wires , grounds (greasy pete everything . Got fuel , motor turns over , no spark at plug( no safety switches- long gone) new starter, new ignition switch new fuel lines and fuel filter, electric pump . Help 

[Gasaholic 224]

Pretty standard air gap - .010 to .012 is where I set them. Some can be as close as .008 , others can be as far as .014 , but if in doubt, I usually shoot for 10 thou.

[squonk 40,913]

Did you get the right switch? Should be the magneto style switch. Grounds the module/coil in the off position. Make sure your wire from the module to the switch isn't grounded with the key in on.

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,278]

@squonk a nice guy would drive to Va. and help me. I will check the switch tomorrow. 

[squonk 40,913]

24 minutes ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

@squonk a nice guy would drive to Va. and help me. I will check the switch tomorrow. 

Do they have any Sheetz gas stations near you to have dinner at? 

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,278]

@squonk you are funny but looks aren't everything. I checked the switch; it be the right one. I will play Sherlock Holmes tomorrow with the dang wires again. It would be nice if WH had used some color wiring. Every wire is black even after cleaning them. I am running out of shop rags.  don't rag on Sheetz , $3.19 gal plus I get $0.03 off with my rewards card so it is 3.16 if you forgot your goesinto . I am beginning to hate the 310-8 .

[squonk 40,913]

40 minutes ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

@squonk you are funny but looks aren't everything. I checked the switch; it be the right one. I will play Sherlock Holmes tomorrow with the dang wires again. It would be nice if WH had used some color wiring. Every wire is black even after cleaning them. I am running out of shop rags.  don't rag on Sheetz , $3.19 gal plus I get $0.03 off with my rewards card so it is 3.16 if you forgot your goesinto . I am beginning to hate the 310-8 .

Never mind the gas. What about the sando's?

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,278]

Only time I eat out is at the BS , and some turkey wanted to go to the BBQ that closed the previous year. Based on getting lost twice and it closing , I ain't going to dinner with youse no more. It are bad luck. When are you coming to check out the dang wires on the 310-8 ?

[953 nut 54,844]

1 hour ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

I will play Sherlock Holmes tomorrow with the dang wires again. It would be nice if WH had used some color wiring. Every wire is black even after cleaning them.

 

4 hours ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

new module but can't find the specs on gap between module and flywheel. No spark , checked all wires , grounds (greasy pete everything . Got fuel , motor turns over , no spark at plug( no safety switches- long gone) new starter, new ignition switch 

Why did you have to replace the ignition module and ignition switch? What was and wasn't happening?

The wires are black with a thin colored tracer line printed on them, need good lighting and a little luck to see them. You never said what year 310 you have but there shouldn't be too much difference in the ignition wiring on Magnums. There should be a plug connecting the engine to chaises wiring that will have an ignition kill wire, a charging system wire and low oil switch if so equipped. Unplug the connector which will eliminate any wiring problems on the tractor stopping the ignition from working. Operate the starter by a jumper from the two large posts on the solenoid. If the magneto coil is doing its job the engine will start.

[squonk 40,913]

11 hours ago, 953 nut said:

 

Why did you have to replace the ignition module and ignition switch? What was and wasn't happening?

The wires are black with a thin colored tracer line printed on them, need good lighting and a little luck to see them. You never said what year 310 you have but there shouldn't be too much difference in the ignition wiring on Magnums. There should be a plug connecting the engine to chaises wiring that will have an ignition kill wire, a charging system wire and low oil switch if so equipped. Unplug the connector which will eliminate any wiring problems on the tractor stopping the ignition from working. Operate the starter by a jumper from the two large posts on the solenoid. If the magneto coil is doing its job the engine will start.

If it starts, I hope someone is filming Waldo trying to get it to shut off! 

[953 nut 54,844]

2 hours ago, squonk said:

If it starts, I hope someone is filming Waldo trying to get it to shut off! 

I figured he is smart enough to short out the kill wire or choke it or pull the spark plug wire or sooner or later it will run out of gas!         

[squonk 40,913]

Before the days of cell phones my B-I-L had a Briggs and Scrap-Em sitting in his shop. He decided to see if it would run so he put some gas in it and pulled the cord. It started ,went full throttle and bounced around the shop until it managed to break off the spark plug! 

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,278]

@953 nut I replaced the ignition switch because it was worn out and the starter because it only worked part time. Also replaced the solenoid because it died..  I having been going step by step.  First the switch then the starter. jumped the solenoid and it was running ,drove it around the yard and it died. Could not get it restarted . Had to push the sucker back close to the shed , then the RAIN came. After the rain quit , checked wires and discussed via PM with Sir Skunky( the could have been part of the problem) . Finally removed the solenoid from a c-120 and put it on the 310-8 . Starter worked , still would not start. Replaced all the fuel line and filter , still no go. Got a new spark plug ,. Got out spark plug tester, no fire. Removed tins to check for broken wire(s) . did not find any. Used emery cloth to fine sand the module and flywheel. Still nothing. My guess is the module needs to be replaced. Rechecked new switch ,same poles as circuit diagram.  I am getting fuel but no fire.  Going out later today to see if there are in chafed  or broken wires in the harness. Have already checked all the grounds. Removed the ground wires cleaned connections and coated with dielectric grease.

[Gasaholic 224]

16 minutes ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

@953 nut I replaced the ignition switch because it was worn out and the starter because it only worked part time. Also replaced the solenoid because it died..  I having been going step by step.  First the switch then the starter. jumped the solenoid and it was running ,drove it around the yard and it died. Could not get it restarted . Had to push the sucker back close to the shed , then the RAIN came. After the rain quit , checked wires and discussed via PM with Sir Skunky( the could have been part of the problem) . Finally removed the solenoid from a c-120 and put it on the 310-8 . Starter worked , still would not start. Replaced all the fuel line and filter , still no go. Got a new spark plug ,. Got out spark plug tester, no fire. Removed tins to check for broken wire(s) . did not find any. Used emery cloth to fine sand the module and flywheel. Still nothing. My guess is the module needs to be replaced. Rechecked new switch ,same poles as circuit diagram.  I am getting fuel but no fire.  Going out later today to see if there are in chafed  or broken wires in the harness. Have already checked all the grounds. Removed the ground wires cleaned connections and coated with dielectric grease.

Before putting tins back on, I would suggest, pop your plug out, unhook the small black grounding wire from the ignition module, then hook in your spark tester and crank it to see if you get spark. If you do, then your ground wire is shorted to ground (seat switch? safety switch?) somewhere. Also check body of the module closely for any "swelling" or smell of burning , which would mean you somehow got 12 volts shorted to the ground wire (I have seen a couple aftermarket switches do that due to an internal mis-configuration or incorrect assembly of switch - they'd suddenly be supplying 12 volts through the coil ground wire , frying the coil.  Granted, both times were on cheapie MTD riders running Briggs engines, but it is possible to happen on any magneto ignition system) 

(Simply check your coil ground wire while it is disconnected form coil, but hooked to engine harness, for any DC voltage at all while cranking it over and wiggling switch between positions.... any DC voltage to that wire, even if not 12V battery voltage, can also cause havoc with the electronics in the ignition module, which is expecting to see a voltage only from the coil windings, and not coming from the other way.) 

[squonk 40,913]

Also check the plug wire where it attaches into the module for deterioration. Meeses like chewing on those. 

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,278]

Ok , here is where I sit stand and cuss so far. Removed the harness connector. Had not been removed since it was installed, I am sure. removed tins again. Jump it at the solenoid no spark. Checked plug wire Okay no teeth marks from mickey's cousins. Forgot to pull small black wire and test. That will happen tomorrow or later. Got to get converter on Silverado replaced   tomorrow. hope it is only one and not all 3 . I am going to sit in from of TV, hope there is something on to watch.

[Rick3478 425]

3 hours ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

Ok , here is where I sit stand and cuss so far. Removed the harness connector. Had not been removed since it was installed, I am sure. removed tins again. Jump it at the solenoid no spark. Checked plug wire Okay no teeth marks from mickey's cousins. Forgot to pull small black wire and test. That will happen tomorrow or later. Got to get converter on Silverado replaced   tomorrow. hope it is only one and not all 3 . I am going to sit in from of TV, hope there is something on to watch.

 

May I step in and query you a bit?

 

You removed the harness connector.  You are referring to the pigtail that comes out of the back of the engine near the starter and dipstick tube, yes?

Here's where you start to lose me.

Removed tins again.  Okay, don't know why you did that, but it should run for a very short period of time without overheating.  You might have to short out the plug wire with a screwdriver or something to stop it, but I'm okay with that if you are.

Jump it at the solenoid no spark.

Why jumping it at the solenoid?  Didn't you just replace the switch, solenoid, and starter?  Depending on how many safety interlocks exist, you might have to sit on the seat, step on the clutch, and have the PTO off, but if you do those things, the switch should be engaging the starter.  If not, something else is wrong, like maybe the oil sentry or safety relay.  Makes me wonder if all the stuff you replaced was actually working all along.

 

The main diagnostic concept I want to lead you to is this - the electronic magneto module will make spark on its own unless you ground the kill wire or accidentally apply battery to it (which will permanently fry it).  The rest of the electric parts are fluff, you could remove all of them and just put a pull rope and kill switch on the motor, and it would be happy.  Hope that helps.

 

 

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,278]

@Rick3478First question Yes Removing the harness connector required jumping the solenoid to see if the module would generate spark to plug. No safety switches or oil safety on the machine. The only thing I wonder about your info is how would I accidently apply battery to module ?  I am going to check the wire that goes to module tomorrow or later in the week. That wire maybe pinched as it goes behind the starter at the block. I have checked the new switch against wiring diagram and everything matches. Old switch was original and worn out, same with starter , guess solenoid was worn out. It is a 1987 310-8 and I have had it about 10 plus years.

[Rick3478 425]

4 hours ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

4 hours ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

@Rick3478First question Yes Removing the harness connector required jumping the solenoid to see if the module would generate spark to plug. No safety switches or oil safety on the machine. The only thing I wonder about your info is how would I accidently apply battery to module ?  I am going to check the wire that goes to module tomorrow or later in the week. That wire maybe pinched as it goes behind the starter at the block. I have checked the new switch against wiring diagram and everything matches. Old switch was original and worn out, same with starter , guess solenoid was worn out. It is a 1987 310-8 and I have had it about 10 plus years.

 

It made me wonder partly because of multiple things being "bad" all at the same time, but also with the harness disconnected I don't think you should have needed to jump the solenoid, rather the keyswitch should have worked at that point.  Since you say it has no interlocks, I don't know how things might have been bypassed to achieve that, and it might be possible for the kill wire to be connected directly to the keyswitch, in which case a wrong switch that looks the same could route power to that terminal for battery ignition, rather than grounding it to kill the spark.  Or if you were jumpering things around trying to get the solenoid to work, might have jumpered wrong things.  But you say it ran for awhile, so I dunno.  Trying to make sense of what you posted and educated guesses.

 

In any case, it sounds like you understand that the magneto will work all by itself, and yes a pinched kill wire could prevent that, and maybe explain why it ran for a bit then died.  I hope it's that simple.

 

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,278]

Hot Dog got fire, the kill wire to the module was pinched. Now all i have to do is pull all the stuff back together .  

[squonk 40,913]

4 hours ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

Hot Dog got fire, the kill wire to the module was pinched. Now all i have to do is pull all the stuff back together .  

You should of read my first post instead of going to Sheets for dinner!  Sherlock must have been hung over Sunday.

Edited October 3, 2023 by squonk

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,278]

@squonk you did not state anything about a wire being pinched plus you can't spell (it is Sheetz). The wire was caught between the block and the heavy bracket that supports the starter. It was flat like a penny on the railroad tracks after the freight train rolled over it. Tomorrow 's plan is to replace the tins and put the harness in a wire loom and think of some smart A** comment for your next post. I have thought of further comments for this post, but this is a family forum. Waldo

[squonk 40,913]

24 minutes ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

@squonk you did not state anything about a wire being pinched plus you can't spell (it is Sheetz). The wire was caught between the block and the heavy bracket that supports the starter. It was flat like a penny on the railroad tracks after the freight train rolled over it. Tomorrow 's plan is to replace the tins and put the harness in a wire loom and think of some smart A** comment for your next post. I have thought of further comments for this post, but this is a family forum. Waldo

I said " make sure the wire from the module to the switch isn't grounded " The wire you pinched was grounded to the block. I rest my case.

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,278]

You know what you can kiss and I still not going to dinner with you. Randy and I will find a place even if it is Sheetz buffet.

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,278]

The 310-8 is alive. Everything back together including wire loom for wires. The wire loom was a big PITA to put the wires in place. Oil change and grease job and i will be ready for leaves.