Kohler command vs old cast iron kohler

[moe1965 723]

I just purchased a toro wheel horse that has a 12 ho Kohler command engine . I don't know anything about this engine compared to the older Kohler's are the as reliable and strong running any thing to pay special attention to it hasn't been running in a few years and it's my weakens project this weekend.  Thanks for any info 

[peter lena 8,103]

@moe1965 done a lot of engine wake ups ,/ recovery , original " oil  " , would top up with a  5.30 weight  , use this in initial run in , acts as a cleaner / flushing to unknown condition,  drop carb bowl , clean out , fuel filter , , check wiring for faults , chafing , corrosion , cracked , etc. . would also go easy on it as far as revs go , see how it settles in , replace air filter , use a carb cleaner , directly into intake to assist operational function , would also add a fuel treatment to your gas . after hot run time , ideal time to HOT OIL FLUSH ,OUT THE CRUD , assisted with the multi wt oil , like ROTELLA  30 WT , or possible multi wt .personally add rislone  zink to all my oils , operational running ease  is very apparent . they are strong engines , my son has his over 20 years now , no issues , regular service . pete

[JoeM 7,700]

The Kohler Courage Engine is the very weak one. I seen lots of design issues with those.

The Command engines are pretty good. 

Probably nothing is going to top those old Kohlers. 

As with either one, small air cooled engines rely on the oil being clean and at the full level. Really increases the life. 

 

[kpinnc 10,872]

5 hours ago, moe1965 said:

older Kohler's are the as reliable and strong running

 

The old solid cast iron Kohler K and Magnums are just about bulletproof. That's why so many still run 60+ years later.

 

But the Commands are definitely decent engines. They will never last as long as the old engines, but should give many year's service if properly maintained. Regular servicing and ethanol-free gas are your friends.

[bds1984 1,385]

I have the bigger brother to your 12hp, the 15 HP Command Pro in my 315-8.  It's a great engine with power to turn a 48" deck effortlessly, sips fuel, and is quiet.  It doesn't quite have the torque of my C165, but for just mowing, it is more than adequate.  Don't waste your money on oem oil filters where a filter off a late model Ford Fusion 1.5L will fit them just fine and a third of the price.  The one issue I do not like is how the air filter is small and gets very dirty since it draws a lot of air from the flywheel shroud.  Keep the filter clean; I wash and reoil the foam filter 4-5 times a year even though I run mine about twenty hours a year at this point.    

[RED-Z06 2,138]

Commands and K series made power in different ways..

K series were low compression flatheads, with big heavy cranks, pistons, flywheels. A very long stroke and smaller bore, a 12hp k301 was 491cc.

 

The Command 12.5 had a higher compression, easier breathing ohv head, more lift and duration, a bigger bore but shorter stroke...at 398cc.

 

The high compression engine with less mass and a shorter stroke will make more high rpm usable power, burning much less fuel, the lower compression bigger displacement engine with the heavier rotating assembly will have more torque at the cost of responsiveness.

 

Running a tiller, both will function the same using a fraction of their power, the Command will make more efficient power at high speed fore max tine speed.

 

Pulling, the K series will lug down faster but be able to grunt through at a lower rpm...however the Command would likely stay at a higher rpm longer, doing more work before it lost speed.

 

Mowing, you need blade tip speed so with both operating at 3600 the Command would be choice.

[Fordiesel69 226]

The command engines are great.  There is not much aftermarket stuff available in terms of rebuild parts, so if you ever hear the term disposable, there is some truth to that.  But aside from that, i may go off on a limb and say that with proper maint, they might last longer than a K series / Magnum.  I find the cast iron liner to be a little more stout than the solid cast bore of the K/MAG.  Crankpins also seem to oval out less.

[RED-Z06 2,138]

23 minutes ago, Fordiesel69 said:

The command engines are great.  There is not much aftermarket stuff available in terms of rebuild parts, so if you ever hear the term disposable, there is some truth to that.  But aside from that, i may go off on a limb and say that with proper maint, they might last longer than a K series / Magnum.  I find the cast iron liner to be a little more stout than the solid cast bore of the K/MAG.  Crankpins also seem to oval out less.

I think alot of people forget that Commands have been out since 1987, 36 years is a long run, longer than the K series was produced.  Getting parts can be difficult but ive never been unable to get parts outside of a discontinued crank from a special application 

[moe1965 723]

Not sure if the hour meter is correct but it says 1100 hrs.  Not sure what I'm gonna do with it once I got it running it was a scrap save.   I'm sure I'll figure it out but I'm up to 7 tractors and no room I don't want any to sleep outside......

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by moe1965

[Ike 75]

I was annoyed when toro switched the magnum to the command on the classic but now I like the command better.

 

 It is quieter, less vibration and starts instantly. Never had any trouble with the one on my 2005 classic gt.

[kpinnc 10,872]

On 9/5/2023 at 2:15 PM, Fordiesel69 said:

i may go off on a limb and say that with proper maint, they might last longer than a K series / Magnum. 

 

Definitely do not hop... That limb may break! 

 

The sad truth is most of us won't live long enough to dispute your theory. There are K series Kohlers that still run nearly 70 years after they were made. Thousands of them still run now 50-60 years later. 

 

On 9/5/2023 at 2:42 PM, RED-Z06 said:

since 1987

 

In 2057, they will have lasted as long as the Ks have right now. I'll bet there will still be a few Ks around then too.