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BrianK

C-160 Hydro issues

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8 hours ago, pfrederi said:

The grove on my parts shaft is .054  so I guess it may be one of the later/upgraded ones...at least I assume the upgrade used thicker/stronger snap rings.

 

I wonder if there's enough material on the end of the shaft to machine out the 16 thousands difference? Opposite the side that contacts the bearing of course. That's about 4 sheets of paper worth. I bet there is, and ive got a couple lathes at work. But that would mean I have to press that shaft....haha forget it. Maybe if the ring breaks again.

Edited by BrianK

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After all that work , I'd get it up to temperature and drop that oil again - hopefully flush anything out that may have been missed . I would highly suspect Sundstrand used hardened steel balls for those valves since everything else they used was some pretty good steel . Those units were built in a plant near me in Peru, Illinois , btw...wish some of those engineers were still around/alive .

 

From what little I talked to the guy that had the tractor/blower - it sounded like he really didn't have much for mechanical skills so that would explain some of what you ran into . If he pulled those valves out and the balls went rolling away into the unknown that would explain them missing - or ending up in a batch of "extra parts" ....lol .

You need to check that charge pressure and verify it's set within limits , then take it out and test it . I'd be surprised if it doesn't work perfectly as that model was one of the toughest Sundstrand's made at the time - mine are still going strong despite quite a lot of abuse .

 

Sarge

 

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I, too, have been following this thread and....just to add my 2 cents:

IMHO... the 9 piston slippers need resurfaced as does the thrust plate.  In all likelihood, the 9 piston slippers of the motor assy will be in the same condition and the thrust plate too.  While the slippers shown here (of the pump) don't appear real bad, the cumulative effect of the 18 slippers and both thrust plates would be detrimental.  

 

Another factor to consider is (was) the condition of the bottom of the piston cylinder block.  That steel surface rides on the brass side of the valve plate in BOTH the pump and motor sections.  Given the scratched condition of the slippers as shown here, no doubt the mating surfaces of the cylinder block(s) and valve plate(s) are also scratched / scored.   

Inasmuch as the motor assy wasn't torn down to inspect, the condition of internal surfaces cannot be nailed down for sure. However, since the fluid is common throughout, it is reasonable to expect less than optimum condition of the motor surfaces.  

 

Use a large 'C' clamp to press the shaft out of the motor assy.  If a suitable clamp isn't at hand, fabricate some sort of lever contraption to press out the shaft.  This is the only way to inspect the motor assy.  

 

In any case, I am offering a few pics of the internals and what the surfaces should look like.  When servicing the pump for wear conditions, it is also necessary to service the motor section as the internals are almost identical.

 

Now is also the time to open and inspect the acceleration valves.  Pics of that too:

 

 

 

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On 12/19/2016 at 9:18 AM, Sarge said:

After all that work , I'd get it up to temperature and drop that oil again - hopefully flush anything out that may have been missed . I would highly suspect Sundstrand used hardened steel balls for those valves since everything else they used was some pretty good steel . Those units were built in a plant near me in Peru, Illinois , btw...wish some of those engineers were still around/alive .

 

From what little I talked to the guy that had the tractor/blower - it sounded like he really didn't have much for mechanical skills so that would explain some of what you ran into . If he pulled those valves out and the balls went rolling away into the unknown that would explain them missing - or ending up in a batch of "extra parts" ....lol .

You need to check that charge pressure and verify it's set within limits , then take it out and test it . I'd be surprised if it doesn't work perfectly as that model was one of the toughest Sundstrand's made at the time - mine are still going strong despite quite a lot of abuse .

 

Sarge

 

 

Not a bad idea Sarge, better safe than sorry.  Wouldn't it be nice if they were around, what a wealth of knowledge!

Indeed, who knows what happened but at this point we just have to suspect ignorance (in the sense of not knowing) is the culprit. 

Its good to know they're beefy and up to the abuse. It also eases my mind a little bit to know I have a backup pump in case something goes awry. 

 

 

On 12/19/2016 at 6:20 PM, daveoman1966 said:

I, too, have been following this thread and....just to add my 2 cents:

IMHO... the 9 piston slippers need resurfaced as does the thrust plate.  In all likelihood, the 9 piston slippers of the motor assy will be in the same condition and the thrust plate too.  While the slippers shown here (of the pump) don't appear real bad, the cumulative effect of the 18 slippers and both thrust plates would be detrimental.  

 

Another factor to consider is (was) the condition of the bottom of the piston cylinder block.  That steel surface rides on the brass side of the valve plate in BOTH the pump and motor sections.  Given the scratched condition of the slippers as shown here, no doubt the mating surfaces of the cylinder block(s) and valve plate(s) are also scratched / scored.   

Inasmuch as the motor assy wasn't torn down to inspect, the condition of internal surfaces cannot be nailed down for sure. However, since the fluid is common throughout, it is reasonable to expect less than optimum condition of the motor surfaces.  

 

Use a large 'C' clamp to press the shaft out of the motor assy.  If a suitable clamp isn't at hand, fabricate some sort of lever contraption to press out the shaft.  This is the only way to inspect the motor assy.  

 

In any case, I am offering a few pics of the internals and what the surfaces should look like.  When servicing the pump for wear conditions, it is also necessary to service the motor section as the internals are almost identical.

 

Now is also the time to open and inspect the acceleration valves.  Pics of that too:

 

 

 

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Great post Dave. Welcome to the conversation and thanks for joining in, your expertise is most welcome.  While the slippers and valve plate looked a bit better in my pump vs the one you refurbished in your pictures, you're right, I should to avoid any issues down the road. I really do want to get into that motor and see whats going on. I do not like not knowing the condition and it is bothering me.  I'm a little apprehensive on pressing that shaft because I don't have any replacement parts in case theres an issue, ie: breaking the retaining clip. I will try to find one asap. Now that I know what im doing I can probably have the pump and motor refurbished, the oil changed and it re-installed in 1 long day. I have all the necessary tools at my disposal at work in a warm environment which will considerably speed up my process, including a press and C-Clamps our tool room uses that are more than adequate for the task.  

 

Do you think I should polish the thrust washer and bottom of the cylinder block for good measure and what graduation of abrasives do you recommend? I have sandpaper up to 2000 grit and I also have a very flat ceramic hone that I use for mirror polishing my knife edges. Do you think there is a point of diminishing returns when polishing the faces of these components, the smoother the better or will too smooth reduce performance? Obviously removing as little material as possible is ideal. Thanks again.

Edited by BrianK

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Alrighty, just a quick update.  I wasn't able to borrow a 1000 psi gauge from work BUT, I did grab a 3000. I think the 1000 is locked up in my supervisors toolbox so I will as him tomorrow for it. The 3000 psi gauge was brand new, however i'm not happy with the test. Not because I don't trust the gauge, as it is of pretty high quality and glycerin filled, but because of the graduations. Based on my experience, a 3000 psi gauge doesn't really care about pressures below say 500, which is precisely where my focus is. The manufacturer also recommends the gauge be vertical and to cut open the weep hole in the top to release pressure so the gauge needle can zero properly. This particular gauge is made for a permanent install and its not mine so I didn't cut it open plus I had to install it horizontally anyway so all the glycerin would leak out. I tried using the top port but I grabbed a 3/8ths NPT adapter instead of straight thread. DOH. Not sure why the side port is NTP threaded but the top isn't. O well.  The needle read zero already so I left it alone. ANYWAY, the manufacturer states the graduations are 50 psi. From 0 to 500 there are 8 graduations including the 500 psi graduation. If I started at 50 on the first graduation after zero that puts me at 400 psi on the 500 psi mark. So I went from 500 backwards and decided on the 2nd graduation from zero being 200psi. haha, still following my lunacy?

IMG_5445.JPG

 

The picture shows my tractor at 3/4 idle COLD without wheels spinning...if I remember right. That puts me at about 225 psi. I THINK when it was warm I was around 100 or a little less with the wheels spinning. As you can see its hard to tell below the first graduation. I failed to read in the manual where it states ALL testing should be at 3/4 idle or higher WITH THE WHEELS SPINNING until after I was done. Implement testing went great, though I didn't test with the wheels spinning....at 3/4 idle the implement pressure at its max travel for both directions is right at 750. So i think my pressures are good but the only questionable reading would be the pressure at 3/4 idle with just the wheels spinning and at operating temp.  I will retest tomorrow night to be certain with a 1000 psi gauge and will also retest the implement side. 

 

Regardless of the pressure test results, you guys have convinced me to rebuild the pumps and disassemble the motor. I'm still apprehensive but its probably worth it to not damage both pumps down the road.  The work continues! Stay tuned for a picture heavy double pump and motor rebuild! :woohoo:

Edited by BrianK

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I have the retaining clip you fret about....$21 for it...mailed to you.  

Depending on condition, I start with 220 grit, then to 400 and finish with either 600 or 1000 oil-soaked emery paper.  You don't need a mirror finish...just get rid of the scratches using minimal material loss.  Resurface all 18 slippers, the brass side of the two valve plates, and the base of both cylinder blocks.  Even if they don't appear to be scratched, slide them on the emery paper just to clean off the old residue.  The thrust washer is high-grade you'll need a precision grinder to just 'dust'  it off.  You could also just flip it over.

 

To compensate for the accumulated material loss, you could shape a .005 shim of stainless steel to place behind the thrust wahser in the hyd pump and / or the hyd motor. I often do this, although not really known if necessary or not.  That's just me, falling on the side of caution.    

  

Look  at the gerotor set and charge pump housing.  This is the source of oil pressure and the cavity of the charge pump housing is just a whisker deeper than the gerotor set is thick.  If you shave off too much of the gerotor set, oil pressure will not be developed, or lost, between it and the cavity.  

 

Edited by daveoman1966
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Sounds good Dave, Ill let you know if I break it. :D  The abrasive graduation sounds simple enough.  I do have access to two precision grinders but im not going to feel like setting it up if I can just flip them over. Ill give a close inspection and decide from there but they looked good in both the pump and motor.  Excellent idea on the shim, I have stainless stock on hand. I will be especially careful with the gerotor. It looked in excellent condition when I re-assembled the pump but I have not seen the motor's, or the spare pump assembly. Fingers crossed.   Thank you for the tips, much appreciated. 

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1 minute ago, BrianK said:

Sounds good Dave, Ill let you know if I break it. :D  The abrasive graduation sounds simple enough.  I do have access to two precision grinders but im not going to feel like setting it up if I can just flip them over. Ill give a close inspection and decide from there but they looked good in both the pump and motor.  Excellent idea on the shim, I have stainless stock on hand. I will be especially careful with the gerotor. It looked in excellent condition when I re-assembled the pump but I have not seen the motor's, or the spare pump assembly. Fingers crossed.   Thank you for the tips, much appreciated. 

The gerotor is only in the pump section...under the charge pump housing.  Just be methodical and take your time...no sense in rushing.  Of course, keep everything white-towel clean when refitting parts.  BTW... the correct oil filter is available and the # is 79-5270...15 bux or so at dealers or Ebay.  I would recommend you get TWO oil filters.  Replace the 1st filter and change oil / ATF after 25 hours running time.  

 

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22 minutes ago, daveoman1966 said:

The gerotor is only in the pump section...under the charge pump housing.  Just be methodical and take your time...no sense in rushing.  Of course, keep everything white-towel clean when refitting parts.  BTW... the correct oil filter is available and the # is 79-5270...15 bux or so at dealers or Ebay.  I would recommend you get TWO oil filters.  Replace the 1st filter and change oil / ATF after 25 hours running time.  

 

 

Good point. I knew that considering I disassembled and cleaned 1 pump already and have studied the motor print. :doh:  I do have Friday and Monday off so its the perfect weekend for it, not feeling under the gun....supposed to warm up a bit around us this weekend as well. 30 degrees in the garage will feel like a nice spring day.  Thanks for the oil filter number. I have a Napa/Wix filter on there now #1410, would you recommend the TORO over it?

Edited by BrianK

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22 minutes ago, BrianK said:

 

Some after-market oil filters have internal valves or restrictors , or not, and they are not disclosed.. I can't tell you the internals of a Toro 79-5270 filter, but I can guarantee that it will be right....the first time.  Google 'Toro 79-5270" and I'm sure you'll find them everywhere, except Walmart and the like.  

Another thing occurs to me....  The CYLINDER BLOCK(s).  There is a coil spring in it, with a flat washer and spirol retaining ring that can be a PITA, but have a look at it to be sure the spring is not compromised.  Here is a pic.  

And more.... be sure you get the orientation right when relocating the charge pump housing onto the end cap..It won't work at all if you get this backwards (don't ask how I know).  Look at the little pin I circled.   

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38 minutes ago, daveoman1966 said:

Some after-market oil filters have internal valves or restrictors , or not, and they are not disclosed.. I can't tell you the internals of a Toro 79-5270 filter, but I can guarantee that it will be right....the first time.  Google 'Toro 79-5270" and I'm sure you'll find them everywhere, except Walmart and the like. 

 

Understood, makes sense.

 

38 minutes ago, daveoman1966 said:

Another thing occurs to me....  The CYLINDER BLOCK(s).  There is a coil spring in it, with a flat washer and spirol retaining ring that can be a PITA, but have a look at it to be sure the spring is not compromised.  Here is a pic.  

 

Does anything need to be done with this assembly other than an inspection...unless there's damage? 

 

38 minutes ago, daveoman1966 said:

And more.... be sure you get the orientation right when relocating the charge pump housing onto the end cap..It won't work at all if you get this backwards (don't ask how I know).  Look at the little pin I circled.  

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I did notice this note in the manual regarding the pin orientation, and man I'm glad I did. 👍🏻

 

 

38 minutes ago, daveoman1966 said:

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I for sure appreciate the info - been wanting to go further into the pumps and motors and I have the equipment necessary here to work on them with the exception of the gauges for testing but that's easy. I've never had time or need to go that deep into the charge pump section and suspect I've run into a few that weren't up to snuff as they had very little oil flow/pressure and it certainly could have been from scored pistons/slippers .

Deeply appreciate the pics and descriptions , Dave...thanks .

Sarge

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Ok, no dice on the 1000psi gauge.I even recruited the assistance of my manager and he was unable to locate it, so I ordered one. It'll be here Friday. Sort of delays my plans on the rebuild a bit but while its in transit to my house I can take the spare pump to the shop and rebuild it while im waiting. I'd really like to get an accurate reading before the rebuild. I got the necessary adapters and retested tonight on the 3000psi gauge. Mainly because I tested wrong the first time, not having the wheels spinning the whole time. Which, BTW, does make a difference.

 Cold 3/4 throttle and full speed in forward 150psi. Warm, again, im unsure of because of the graduations but as the oil heated it did drop, im guessing 75-100psi. I wrote down 50-75psi with a question mark so the assumption remains until I get the proper gauge Friday.  The implement test went great, consistent with the last test. Cold 3/4 throttle and full speed max travel in both directions on the lift cylinder is 700psi. Warm was also 700psi.  If this tells us anything its that the charge pump is in great condition with any loss in pressure to be negligible at best as I was unable to detect any drop on the gauge. I will refurbish the pump anyway because id like to start this horses life with me in peak condition.  The drop in pressure on the charge pump with wheels spinning alone is mildly concerning as the manual states with pressure should be 70-150psi and that the charge pump should not drop below 50psi in any condition. Be that as it may, 70-150 really isnt much pressure at all and it appears to me these test numbers given are somewhat abstract in theory given the 115% deviation + or - to be considered normal. Unless this range has proven itself to correlate directly to pump condition and is listed for indication to the tester. I probably just talked myself out of my own stupidity. However im not a hydraulic engineer and if one were to read what I just typed he'd probably be shaking his head right now.

 

The manual states "any appreciable drop in charge pressure as the temperature rises indicates internal leakage caused by worn parts resulting in loss of power". Back to my previous point; whats "appreciable"? I started at 150psi so is an 80psi drop appreciable considering the normal operating range from 70 to 150 IS 80psi? I dunno. Like @Sarge said, would be nice to have some Sundstrand engineers around.  I'm guessing there's some type of scoring on the motor thrust plate and slippers as @daveoman1966 suspects. Especially since that's where the snap ring busted. The previous owner telling me he found pieces of it in the filter makes it all but absolute as it had to travel through the system to get caught there. Friday afternoon will give us a better indication on a proper pressure test and definitive proof to come via actual inspection. I may not finish until Saturday with an update, before/after pics and pressure tests to probably come again on Sunday depending on family Christmas stuff and if all goes according to plan.  MERRY CHRISTMAS!

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One of my main concerns about repairing these pumps is finding parts - such as the slipper retainer , gerotor head , various hardened snap rings , ect...and gaskets ....?

Used parts could be too far worn , or missing and buying used pumps to scavenge parts is a whole different animal since there were a lot of variations..

 

Any ideas ? @daveoman1966 , others ?

 

Sarge

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Yep, im right there with ya Sarge. Its kind of a crap shoot but in the 2 weeks ive had my Horse ive done a lot of searching. Ebay, craigslist...the classifieds here. Before I got the issues solved with my pump/motor I was talking with 3 different people who had 160's for sale that I could use as a parts tractor. Lots of cross-referencing between models to see what transmissions would work, motors, transaxles etc.  You're almost damned if you do damned if you don't. Preventative maintenance can help things last forever, but far too often ive seen it backfire. Similar to people who try to change their transmission oil and filter after not changing it for over 100,000 miles when they start to have problems. New oil with fresh detergents and a higher flow rate with no more particulate to assist the clutch plates and bingo, need a new trans overnight. Having said that I'd still try to get in there and help the components along. Seems there are still a lot of tractors out there to be had, even for parts. The pump that came with my tractor was off a tractor produced after mine was discontinued. It would have worked if the valve assemblies were complete. I've read on here that most of the Sundstrand pumps are practically identical with slight variations on the endcaps. I know of a couple "tractor graveyard" websites that sell old tractor parts too. I stumbled on one of them just doing a part number search on google for a pump end cap. Complete for $20 plus shipping. In fact that's how ive been finding my parts, just googling the part number given in the manuals prefaced by "wheel horse".  I knew going in that I should start accumulating spare parts when they popped up...or buy a parts tractor when the right deal came along. You'll have to improvise along the way...such as my charge valve ball and spring from ace hardware. Fabricating your own parts, modifying etc...like gaskets. Pretty much have to make your own but sometimes all that stuff is part of the fun for me. Id definitely try to amass some sort of rebuild kit based on what typically goes wrong with the component you're going to rip in to. This thread would have gone a lot differently if I didn't have an extra pump on hand. It seems like we almost have to become experts on our particular models, know their trouble spots, what will fit/work for aftermarket parts and plan accordingly. Its so much more than just owning an old tractor, but for me that makes it so much more fun...and cooler. Imagine trying to repair these tractors without a network and support group like this forum. I probably wouldn't have sprung for a Horse to be honest. Sure glad this place is here.

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There are some pump rebuilders left that know the Sundstrand units inside and out - it takes some digging to find them but they would probably be the best source for parts as well as members of this board . If nothing else , we have a tendency to store names/numbers of where we got this and that over the years and that sure helps . I call a couple of contacts that I know don't have what I want - but a lot of times they know where I can at least look or who might have it and at least it's a start .

Internet search engines are so polluted these days it's tough to get any relevant hits on what you want and I really hate that . 10yrs ago it was a lot better for sure...

 

Sarge

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When WH disengaged from supporting The Sundstrands they seem to have turned over their parts inventory to LJ Fluid power.  There is an SB somewhere announcing that to the dealers. They are the current go to source for Sundstrand hydro parts.

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Hah ! That's the place I talked to before about the cone valve spring in the old 1277's hydro lift - they mailed one for $8 when I first added the lift to the tractor since that part was broken and couldn't find a new one .

Thanks for that , I'll put them in my contacts and keep it safe in the "tool box list" as well .

Sarge

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I did see LJ mentioned on the forums before in a thread a couple years old. Good to know they've still got parts. 

 

 

 

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Well here we are. I hope this finds you all well, having had a Merry Christmas.  The pump and motor refurb is complete and all is well, for now.  There was another change of plans and I had to compete the entire rebuild in my garage. I also started Thursday night, forgoing testing with the new 1000psi gauge. I wanted to get a jump on it since it would take longer in my shop, glad I did. Not the best set up but it did ok. I had to set up a hillbilly parts washing station consisting of a 5 gallon bucket, 1 gallon of kerosene, 1 gallon of mineral spirits and about 15 cans of propelled cleaner...mainly brake cleaner. Oh and I got my heater working, twas just the thermocouple so a little sandpaper got that up and running again.  Between that and the warmer weather all I really had to deal with was the fumes, a few headaches. and almost having a full blown obsessive compulsive meltdown over every little piece of dirt and lint. No big deal. Anyway, onward... IMG_5460.JPGDraining here, prepped for removal. 

 

 

 

IMG_5461.JPGThis is after some preliminary removal; Gaskets, infamous snap ring, pump end cap, and centering pilot.  Also note that monstrous c-clamp. Its actually a bit comical how big it is. I didn't need one

 

that big. :confusion-shrug: O well, go big or go ho.....oh wait.   So the shaft pressed out pretty easy, no big deal. The 10lb c clamp was harder to manage than the act of pressing the shaft. Dummy.  After the cylinder housing was off I popped the clip and inspected the needle bearings and shaft. Some unfortunate news here where Ill need some folks to chime in with their opinion on the condition of the shaft. I forgot to take pictures of the needle bearings apparently, because of my surprise but you can see from the pitting on the shaft; the two outer most contact points where the spindle sits in the needle bearings allow for too much axial force at the output shaft end, causing excessive wear to the spindle and bearings causing chatter, and therefore pitting. IMG_5467.JPG

 

Seems like the end of the bearing is pretty close to the output gear (as you can see by the witness ring) but it either should have been closer, needed different bearings in the motor with the shaft needing to be pressed in...or both. 

 I've seen this before in the elevator industry. A company put a 90 degree gearbox on a 35 horse motor expecting to drive a 6" pinion about a foot away from the gearbox WITHOUT an output shaft bearing. You guessed it, too much axial force and gearbox split right in half.  One thing is for sure in my future with this motor, it needs new bearings and a new shaft. It will last until I can replace the parts but it'll have to be done in 2017. I wonder if I could spring for the newer shaft with the upgraded snap ring they issued in the service bulletin. Anyone know if it was just the shaft and snap ring that was replaced?

 

I did find some scoring on the motor's slippers, valve plate and cylinder housing. The scoring on the valve plates and in one spot on the motor cylinder housing was deep enough to catch my fingernail. It took quite some time to get the scoring out. These are before:IMG_5487.JPGIMG_5485.JPG 

 

IMG_5463.JPGIMG_5471.JPGIMG_5466.JPGIMG_5469.JPG   All in all nothing was terrible, the valve plates took the brunt of the damage which seems intentional by design.

 

There was also some scoring on the gerotor.

 

IMG_5479.JPG Not too shabby though, considering the housing where the gerotor assembly sits in is unfinished cast iron. :scratchead:

 

 

Some mid-process shots. Here I used premium 400 and 600 grit waterproof silicon carbide paper. No emery paper over 200. They didn't have 1000 for some reason but had 1500 so I grabbed a couple sheets of that for a final quick pass, just a few swipes to take the 600 up to a 7 or 800 finish. The way the 600 was biting the material, 600 seemed a bit rough. Everything was done pretty much in a figure 8 on a piece of glass. The paper was clogging quickly so I sprayed off the dust with an aerosol citrus degreaser which worked beautifully as it kept the paper from forming media deposits, left behind a nice thin oil to work in plus a non toxic more tolerable citrus smell.   IMG_5481.JPGIMG_5474.JPG 

 

Here's what we wound up with:

 

IMG_5483.JPGIMG_5484.JPGIMG_5488.JPGIMG_5486.JPGIMG_5480.JPGIMG_5476.JPGIMG_5478.JPG  I didn't want to take too much off the gerotor since that is such a tight tolerance so I just hit that briefly with 600 and then 1500 to give it its polish back. As you can see I did wind up having to remove about 1 and a half thou from the valve plates. Pretty amazing how a piece of debris half the width of a human hair can cause so much damage. These measurements are + or - a little. I forgot my micrometer at work but I have certified Mitutoyos that are very repeatable and accurate to 1/2 a tenth...that's probably close enough. If I would have known it was going to be that much I would have remembered my shim stock as well but like Dave said, its probably just for peace of mind. Even for a machinist 1 1/2 thou isn't a whole lot BUT, lets not forget we have to add to the total length lost from removing material from the slippers and cylinder base as well. Id guess no more than .003 total. That amount is starting to mean something but there is probably around a 1/2 inch of play in the cylinder spring and it keeps quite a bit of tension on the slipper faces to the thrust washer, if there is any difference in performance at all it would be negligible. I don't think it would translate to a loss in pressure at all but I could be completely wrong. However, having said all that I still would have made a spacer to put behind the thrust washer like Dave suggested. 

 

 

A mid mess action shot of everything ready to go into the parts washer. FYI, those Oil Dry mats were invaluable to this job. Lint free and soak up the oil like crazy. On the other hand, I did run out fast so while at Rural King I picked up a box of their "Tool Box" or whatever brand and those are thicker, but the oil passed through faster and they were NOT lint free. Do yourself a favor and order the Oil Dry sheets. 

IMG_5493.JPG

 

Mid re-assembly:

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Here we are after everyone got a nice bristly bath,  ready for final assembly.  

 

IMG_5498.JPG

 

 

...and ready to go...

IMG_5506.JPG

 

IMG_5509.JPG This is a picture of a magnetic 1/4" NPT plug. I replaced every 1/4" plug on the pump and motor with one of these. I also replaced the drain plug with one. Cheap insurance IMO.

 

 

 

So then I got to thinking, why go through all this work just to have something stuck in the lift hoses or manifold?

 

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I didn't see anything but I also flushed the hoses so there may have been something in there plus it makes me feel better.

 

 

So after all that we're finally ready for testing. 

 

IMG_5528.JPGThis is her ready to go with the new 1000psi gauge I got off amazon. Its the only one I could get before the new year and it had good reviews so I went with it. I found out later its made in china so that was disappointing but whatrya gonna do?  I didn't want to fork over $100 for a USA made one that I wouldn't get till after the 3rd. I think ill spring for one anyway for future testing, you'll see why. 

 

I let the tractor warm up quite a bit before testing this time, let the pump work for a few seconds at the lowest throttle with no load to fill the system before hitting 3/4 throttle.  I also primed the pump again, probably don't need to. I really wanted to pull the charge valve ball and prime the lift as well just to purge the air from the system but whatever, im sure it was all pushed out. Previous test results was as follows:

 

3/4 Throttle Full Speed FWD

COLD - 150 psi  WARM 50? Unknown because of the 3000 psi gauge graduations

 

Implement COLD 700psi   WARM 700psi

 

 

New test results with 1000psi gauge:

 

3/4 Throttle Full Speed FWD

COLD 150 psi  WARM 105psi

 

Implement  COLD 590 psi   WARM 575-580 psi    Interesting right?  The previous testing was done at about 5 degrees if I remember correctly, the ambient temp in the garage during testing this time was probably around 35-40. There are so many variables that could have affected the pressure...disassembly, assembly, maybe I shifted the pistons one slot over, removing material from the components, air in the system, starting oil temp or even the new gauge. I don't think its from the material removed.  So for consistency and comparison, I put the quality USA made 3000psi gauge I borrowed from work on the other port and compared the two. The 3000psi gauge results with the oil nice and warm now was 650psi max travel both directions. Of course just the wheels spinning wouldn't register on the 3000psi gauge so im not sure there, same as before.  50 psi I can handle. Still not sure why the drop, who knows, but one thing is for sure its very consistent and the pressure drops from cold to warm were not much at all.  I even took a pressure test with the oil the same temp at the lowest possible throttle and in neutral. The very lowest pressure reading I could get was 50-55 psi. As far as the chinese gauge goes, it will be a nice knock around gauge but it will be replaced by a quality one. Even with the much higher graduations, I trust the 3000 psi gauge over the 1000 right now. Then again I could be wrong and the 3000psi gauge could be reading high. This is the reason I wanted to get a reading with the 1000psi gauge before the rebuild. That would have given me a more accurate assumption and some standard deviations I could trust. I love cold hard data but I will have to be content with the info I have. 

 

Its 50 degrees today so I think im going to try and put some of the tractor together and drive it around a bit.  I still need to rebuild the spare pump, but that can happen this summer.  One takeaway from all this is I definitely need to find a good shaft and replace all the bearings in the motor. So ill be on the hunt. If any of you have one to sell, shoot me a pm because Ill be looking to buy all the parts asap. 

 

I hope I remembered everything, as always, questions, comments, concerns and advice is all welcome. Would also like your thoughts on putting in an upgraded shaft/snap ring, (is the new shaft thicker or is it just the snap ring) and also what you think on the 50psi implement drop.

IMG_5482.JPG

Edited by BrianK
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:text-yeahthat:If I ever to decide to tackle a project like this ...somebody please talk me out of it! This thread should go in instructionals. :handgestures-thumbupright:

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@BrianK Nothing like being thorough, but I bet you drive you`re wife nuts..:ROTF:  :ychain:    Keep up the good work..

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5 hours ago, pfrederi said:

Excellent Work  and fast!!!

 

Thank you sir!

 

3 hours ago, roadapples said:

@BrianK Nothing like being thorough, but I bet you drive you`re wife nuts..:ROTF:  :ychain:    Keep up the good work..

 

You'd be right! :D The good news tho is that shes had to deal with me for so long shes pretty patient with me now. :text-lol:

Speaking of thorough, I did buy 5 quarts of sacrificial 5w-30 oil to flush the transfer case with before I mounted the assembly. I also took one of my gear oil containers, you know the ones with caps that you have to nip the tip on, filled that with 5-30 as well and literally hosed down the inside of the case with it. I am pretty ridiculous.   Oh, and I bought an inspection camera I plan on sticking down the trans fill tube to see whats goin' on down there now that its ran a bit. I've been wanting one of them for a while now and this use for it put me over the edge to order it. Maybe I can take some video or at least some pics and Ill post them up here. I think that would be pretty interesting.  Maybe if im careful enough I can take a video of it in gear blocked up. 

 

It was so nice today I did wind up throwing most of it together and drove it a short distance, I like that tractor even more now. Its pretty dadgum comfy with that seat and the arm rests but im afraid ill have to get a new one, its cracked quite a bit. Love that Wheel Horse logo in the back rest.  That tractor is QUICK too, she gets up and goes. :wh:

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