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Mastiffman

Hitch Weight Rack...

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On 12/18/2016 at 9:57 AM, classicdmax said:

I think I read somewhere that excessive weight on stock hitch applies unnecessary "point" force on the underside of transaxle which could lead to failure. I think some have added wider pieces of metal to hitch where it contacts the case to distribute the weight over a wider area.

 

i too am waiting on one of toms hitches and think I may try 100# of lead for the additional weight. As I cannot disagree with remarks concerning added wear on seals and perhaps bearings, I don't think 100# is too excessive. I will however be sure to keep the weight as close to tractor as possible as well as ensure it is tightly secured as to not bounce around and cause any potential damage due to being loosely secured

 

Technically it isn't the underside of the transaxle case that is affected. The weak points are the "ears" where the pin slides through. That is where the cracking can occur. Tom and Scott's design spreads the load to the axle portion of the casting..

 

 

Edited by shallowwatersailor
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I really their design! Seems to be a perfect balance. There are some other hitches on ebay that are bolted on the axle horizontally instead of vertically and they don't have any bottom support from those stock hitch holes... Not a good choice. And they are selling those for like $50+

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I've been down this road quite a lot with all the years of being an offroad/4WD kind of guy . Add a lot of weight to a vehicle , lockers and huge tires and parts start failing . Increase strength in one area only to move the failure point somewhere else up the drive line and eventually to the frame/chassis parts . Inertia is a killer , no axle can take sudden shock loads and the same with gears in the drive axle - I've watched guys literally break Rockwell military axles on modified buggies . Weight and traction becomes a huge factor , tire weight is much different than axle weight but both have their drawbacks - I try to spread out the misery if possible and be aware of the additional stress and work accordingly . Just because you have all this newfound traction doesn't mean you can start moving buildings or heavy rock in big passes , take your time and be methodical about it knowing you can and probably will break it . I have the ability to repair stuff , so that comes into consideration as well - much different if you have to source a replacement part or pay someone to fix it for you . There is a limit to everything , even bone stock with just wheel weights these tractors will move far more material than most easily and do it for 50yrs without issue - it's just when you start pushing design limits you start breaking things ....

 

Sarge

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After not enough weight with wheel weights I added these, she's now a heavyweight!:)

 

C-85

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LOL - that's one way to do it ....hehe . I found the limit of the older models - frame mounting plate .

Tires/wheels/weights/chains/fluid + 145lbs each , no weight on the back hitch yet since it flat out never spins unless it's ice but then it just finds something to bite after about 2 revolutions . I've actually worn out the cross chains twice and had to replace the sections as a whole . It pays to invest into a tire chain tool for spreading the links , I've also gotten a couple bags of the side chain links that have the hooks/hoops to hold the cross chains to the side chain section .

http://www.tirechain.com/Tire-Chains-Parts.htm

http://www.tirechainsupply.com/replacement-parts.html

 

Between those two places I'd like to build a custom set for the 26" D series tires , more of a double diamond pattern and test that out . Tough part is finding really good quality hardened tire chain - both those suppliers use decent material but it's not nearly as hard as the commercial use stuff for heavy equipment like road graders and such..

 

Sarge

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Look around for military surplus chains.  i picked up a set for a jeep still in the original bag from Weed circa 1960???.  The were 6.00x16 and I cut them down to fit my 6.00x12.  Notice the difference in thickness between them and the cheesey chains you buy these days on the front wheels. 

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I just acquired 3, 3" od solid cold rolled steel bars. They're  approx 24-30" long. I suspect they weigh around 75# each. I'm thinking of taking a spare 2" hitch tongue and welding it to one of the bars. This will be mounted to my hitch once I receive it from Tom the hitch guy. This could also do double duty as a rear bumper.....I think this will look pretty cool. Pics to come once motivated

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I use 2.5" square x 4' lg bar of cold roll probably 75# as ballast weight on my box blade then have my front weights hanging off the front, also made a carry all for the sleeve hitch that I drilled extra holes in to find that sweet spot for the correct lift height/working depth,Jeff.

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7 hours ago, Sarge said:

There is a limit to everything , even bone stock with just wheel weights these tractors will move far more material than most easily and do it for 50yrs without issue - it's just when you start pushing design limits you start breaking things ..

:text-bravo: Good statement, lots of ammeter drag racers spend a tremendous amount of time and money finding the next weakest link after they build a "bullet proof" world beater engine.

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17 hours ago, classicdmax said:

I just acquired 3, 3" od solid cold rolled steel bars. They're  approx 24-30" long. I suspect they weigh around 75# each. I'm thinking of taking a spare 2" hitch tongue and welding it to one of the bars. This will be mounted to my hitch once I receive it from Tom the hitch guy. This could also do double duty as a rear bumper.....I think this will look pretty cool. Pics to come once motivated

 

Yeah I'd like to see that. Definitely want some 45 degree angle supports for that perpendicular weld joint. ;) 

 

 

17 hours ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

I use 2.5" square x 4' lg bar of cold roll probably 75# as ballast weight on my box blade then have my front weights hanging off the front, also made a carry all for the sleeve hitch that I drilled extra holes in to find that sweet spot for the correct lift height/working depth,Jeff.

 


Nice. Forgive me if I missed it... Where did you get that front weight rack?

Edited by Mastiffman
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I always thought the drag racers were the worst at finding limits of parts - seen far too many engine/transmissions/rear ends/frames explode at the starting line growing up - my Dad was a drag racer for years and campaigned some pretty hairy cars that were dual purpose street pounders and daily drivers to boot .

Once I got into off roading and got around the rock crawling crowd that all changed - those guys are flat out nuts (uh , guilty here, too) and can explode even military grade equipment with ease . It was bad enough when they kept getting more technical and running crazy gear ratio setups to go very slow with endless torque multiplication . I've seen Dana transfer cases twisted , exploded and ripped clean out from the frame rails like it was nothing ...

 

Now, it's a whole new level of insanity - go watch a "Rock Racing" video...offroad trucks being bashed over huge boulders at nearly highway speed...looks like a suicide mission , at least for the vehicle .

 

Personally , adding a weight rack is fine . You really need to focus spreading the load against the rear housing as much as possible . Cast iron really doesn't flex , just shatters . The further that weight is moved back from the axle center line - the worse the problem becomes .

 

Sarge

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31 minutes ago, Mastiffman said:


Nice. Forgive me if I missed it... Where did you get that front weight rack?

@Mastiffman,Made that myself fits into the front attac-a-matic, have a post/thread on here with the material/dimensions, made some extras and sold them, don't work directly in the machine shop anymore so I won't be making any time soon,Jeff.

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I modified the stock hitch with a plate so that it distributes the force on the transaxle better, and then made a sleeve mount for some cheap 25 lb weights.  I'm now running 75 lbs on the hitch AND toro wheel weights on the wheels.  After reading this thread I think I am going to get the 2" receiver and go with that style of design instead.  I'm still a little nervous about putting that stress on the stock hitch and a 2" receiver would be useful anyway.

 

ED804D2B-9499-4DB3-BA23-26D01CBAA8C0_zps

Edited by JoeliusZ28
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On 12/21/2016 at 11:23 AM, WVHillbilly520H said:

@Mastiffman,Made that myself fits into the front attac-a-matic, have a post/thread on here with the material/dimensions, made some extras and sold them, don't work directly in the machine shop anymore so I won't be making any time soon,Jeff.


 Gotcha. Very Cool! Anyone else bug you for one lately?

@JoeliusZ28

 

 Do you have a close up photo of the force distribution plate that you made?

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8 hours ago, Mastiffman said:


 Gotcha. Very Cool! Anyone else bug you for one lately?
 

Not really but here's a couple in the raw...

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On 12/22/2016 at 11:48 AM, Mastiffman said:


@JoeliusZ28

 

 Do you have a close up photo of the force distribution plate that you made?

 

Sure here's a couple more updated pictures.  It doesn't fit perfectly flush against the trans like i was hoping for, partially because of the drainplug.  But i think its better than it was.

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80CB0A19-A58A-41F5-BF7A-9421E811EAB0_zps

 

Edited by JoeliusZ28
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On 12/24/2016 at 2:15 PM, JoeliusZ28 said:

 

Sure here's a couple more updated pictures.  It doesn't fit perfectly flush against the trans like i was hoping for, partially because of the drainplug.  But i think its better than it was.

8FC47D32-259F-4EB7-BC0C-DF9895F5911B_zps

EC44E188-6287-4FDE-B861-C6E172168AF3_zps

80CB0A19-A58A-41F5-BF7A-9421E811EAB0_zps

 

 

Even with that plate on the underside, you are stressing the casting where the pin attaches. That is the weak point. The weight is "pulling down" on that part of the casting.

Edited by shallowwatersailor

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13 hours ago, Mastiffman said:

Has someone ever seen these cases bust or fracture from use like this?

 

I remember seeing a photo on Red Square one time. Here is an old thread that discusses the plate similar to the one JoeliusZ28 made. It is the chance of "bouncing" that puts the stress on it. I have one of Tom/Scott's hitch on my 518xi and have lifted a two-wheel tractor off of it. The added capability is the three points of attachment.

 

Here is a thread with me moving the tractor and a 60" deck.

 

Edited by shallowwatersailor
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Yeah but honestly that's just an idea. Like was said in that thread, no one has ever seen it happen even with all of the over loading the people have done over the years from time to time. I have a hitch From Tom now so I'm not worried to much about it. ha ha. ;) 

 

 The one gentlemen said that he used a plate and it was safe the whole time and it was a fraction of the size that Joeluis used. So I'm sure with Joelius innovation he should be perfectly safe and will bend that hitch downward before breaking the cast iron case.

Edited by Mastiffman

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Maybe this helps with "drawbar" weight only as a reference...As it states for "safe braking"... Well there's where the old IH CC would come in with dual disc brakes on the rear...:auto-layrubber:

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