211-5 no spark

[Brokeoldman 2]

My 211-5 11hp Briggs and Stratton has no spark. I got this recently in pretty rough shape and I'm trying to get it going. I have a new plug installed. I'm not sure if I need to go test all the switches(seat,pto,etc), or if it's a grounding issue or a faulty coil. I obviously don't have much experience with working on tractors.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,617]

Welcome to Red Square

You did not say what model number and model year so this one is a guess. The download will have a diagram for just the ignition.

Do not allow any battery voltage to get to the ignition wire - that will release the magic smoke.

The ignition is self-powered. When the ignition wire is grounded it shuts it off.

 

[Brokeoldman 2]

How can I test the seat and pto switches? If they are bad, is there a way to bypass to be able to still use mower?

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,617]

What you need is to prevent the black ignition wire from being grounded so simply removing the wires from the seat switch will work there.

 

 

(Sorry - this is wrong) If you can disconnect the 2 black and purple from the pto switch that will work to eliminate the ignition but you need to ground the purple temporarily for the starter to work.

New - Just disconnect the orange and blue from the pto switch.

 

Do one and try it and then do the other and try it to isolate the problem - one at a time.

[Achto 26,796]

8 hours ago, Brokeoldman said:

My 211-5 11hp Briggs and Stratton has no spark.

 

 

I would start by disconnecting the kill wire from the coil. If you do this and have spark, then you know that you have a good coil or good coil & points. If the coil is good then move on to the checks given above. 

 

If you find that the coil is bad here is the part number for a Briggs replacement solid state coil 398811. Aftermarket equivalent will serve just as well. 

 

If your engine has points and the points are bad the above coil can be installed as an up graded solid state coil that will eliminate the need for points. Just cut the wire going to the points, install this coil, connect a kill wire to the provided terminal on the new coil. No need to remove the flywheel. I replace all of my pints coils with a solid state coils on my Briggs engines.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Achto

[953 nut 52,556]

10 hours ago, Brokeoldman said:

is there a way to bypass to be able to still use mower?

We discourage the elimination of any safety feature. Follow Dan's @Achto trouble shooting suggestions and let us know what you find. We will walk you through the proper electrical repair so your  will work as it should.

[Brokeoldman 2]

16 hours ago, Achto said:

 

 

I would start by disconnecting the kill wire from the coil. If you do this and have spark, then you know that you have a good coil or good coil & points. If the coil is good then move on to the checks given above. 

 

If you find that the coil is bad here is the part number for a Briggs replacement solid state coil 398811. Aftermarket equivalent will serve just as well. 

 

If your engine has points and the points are bad the above coil can be installed as an up graded solid state coil that will eliminate the need for points. Just cut the wire going to the points, install this coil, connect a kill wire to the provided terminal on the new coil. No need to remove the flywheel. I replace all of my pints coils with a solid state coils on my Briggs engines.

I disconnected this wire attached to coil, and I still have no spark. I suppose bad coil it is. Is there any chance it is the "magneto" not that I would know

[Achto 26,796]

9 minutes ago, Brokeoldman said:

Is there any chance it is the "magneto" not that I would know

 

Coil / magneto is all the same. Look for a replacement coil. The number that I gave you is for a Briggs coil, but a Google search will come up with some after market equivalent's as well. 

[Brokeoldman 2]

17 hours ago, Achto said:

 

 

I would start by disconnecting the kill wire from the coil. If you do this and have spark, then you know that you have a good coil or good coil & points. If the coil is good then move on to the checks given above. 

 

If you find that the coil is bad here is the part number for a Briggs replacement solid state coil 398811. Aftermarket equivalent will serve just as well. 

 

If your engine has points and the points are bad the above coil can be installed as an up graded solid state coil that will eliminate the need for points. Just cut the wire going to the points, install this coil, connect a kill wire to the provided terminal on the new coil. No need to remove the flywheel. I replace all of my pints coils with a solid state coils on my Briggs engines.

I disconnected this wire attached to coil, and I still have no spark. I suppose bad coil it is. Is there any chance it is the "magneto" not that I would know

[Brokeoldman 2]

Just now, Brokeoldman said:

I disconnected this wire attached to coil, and I still have no spark. I suppose bad coil it is. Is there any chance it is the "magneto" not that I would know

I took the coil off and tested it, it's at about 2.64k, does that make any difference on needing to replace it?

[Achto 26,796]

Just now, Brokeoldman said:

I took the coil off and tested it, it's at about 2.64k, does that make any difference on needing to replace it?

 

I have never really tested a Briggs coil so I don't know the resistance readings. Normally I just go with do they spark or not. Do you know if your engine has points?

[Brokeoldman 2]

This model does not have points

[953 nut 52,556]

Perhaps this will help.

 

[Achto 26,796]

19 hours ago, Brokeoldman said:

This model does not have points

 

Start by replacing the coil would be my suggestion.

[Brokeoldman 2]

On 7/5/2022 at 1:46 PM, Brokeoldman said:

This model does not have points

Upon further inspection, I see two wires going up into the flywheel. Does that mean there is indeed points? The wires come from the starter and battery

[Brokeoldman 2]

Just now, Brokeoldman said:

Upon further inspection, I see two wires going up into the flywheel. Does that mean there is indeed points? The wires come from the starter and battery

Could that cause a bad or no spark?

[953 nut 52,556]

@Brokeoldman, have you taken the time to open the service manual for your engine? Section two is all about your ignition system and tests that you can do. I attached the manual to post 13 yesterday.

[Achto 26,796]

17 hours ago, Brokeoldman said:

Upon further inspection, I see two wires going up into the flywheel. Does that mean there is indeed points? The wires come from the starter and battery

 

Those two wires are for the charging system. 

 

What's under the fly wheel on an aluminum block L-head Briggs?

 

1- If you have points, the points and condenser will be under the fly wheel.

2 - If you have a charging system, the alternator stator will be under the fly wheel.

 

How to ID what type of coil that you have. The color of the coil it's self has no bearing on the type of coil.

This picture is of a coil that requires points. Note the space between the coil and the pick up's. Red arrows show this space.

 

These are solid state coils. Some have the space filled in on one side, some have the space filled in on both sides as pointed out by the green arrows. A solid state coil will only have a plug wire and a kill wire or a terminal for the kill wire. Kill wire is pointed out by the yellow arrows.

 

 

To turn the engine off with either type of coil you simply ground out the coil or the points, depending on your system.

 

With a solid state coil, if you unplug the kill wire and turn the engine over you should have spark.

Providing

1 - You have a known good spark plug.

2 - There is no damage to the plug wire.

3 - The gap between the coil pick ups and the fly wheel is correct .010" to .015" at the magnets. A business card works well for this. 

4 - The coil is on correctly. Should be marked indicating which side faces the engine block. May have "IN" or "OUT" marked on the body.

5 - The magnets on the fly wheel are good.

 

If all of the above checks are correct and you do not have spark then replace the coil. Part number 398811 fits all single cylinder L-head Briggs 7-16hp

 

A link for an aftermarket equivalent.

https://www.amazon.com/Dalom-Ignition-Stratton-7HP-16HP-Horizontal/dp/B07FKFNZND/ref=asc_df_B07FKFNZND/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309836003692&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5405297517136523208&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1016367&hvtargid=pla-580028557424&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=67374862491&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309836003692&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5405297517136523208&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1016367&hvtargid=pla-580028557424

 

If by chance your engine does have points, I suggest replacing the original coil with a B&S 398811 or equivalent.  Bolt on application, no more points to worry about.

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Achto

[Brokeoldman 2]

On 7/7/2022 at 10:06 AM, Achto said:

 

Those two wires are for the charging system. 

 

What's under the fly wheel on an aluminum block L-head Briggs?

 

1- If you have points, the points and condenser will be under the fly wheel.

2 - If you have a charging system, the alternator stator will be under the fly wheel.

 

How to ID what type of coil that you have. The color of the coil it's self has no bearing on the type of coil.

This picture is of a coil that requires points. Note the space between the coil and the pick up's. Red arrows show this space.

 

These are solid state coils. Some have the space filled in on one side, some have the space filled in on both sides as pointed out by the green arrows. A solid state coil will only have a plug wire and a kill wire or a terminal for the kill wire. Kill wire is pointed out by the yellow arrows.

 

 

To turn the engine off with either type of coil you simply ground out the coil or the points, depending on your system.

 

With a solid state coil, if you unplug the kill wire and turn the engine over you should have spark.

Providing

1 - You have a known good spark plug.

2 - There is no damage to the plug wire.

3 - The gap between the coil pick ups and the fly wheel is correct .010" to .015" at the magnets. A business card works well for this. 

4 - The coil is on correctly. Should be marked indicating which side faces the engine block. May have "IN" or "OUT" marked on the body.

5 - The magnets on the fly wheel are good.

 

If all of the above checks are correct and you do not have spark then replace the coil. Part number 398811 fits all single cylinder L-head Briggs 7-16hp

 

A link for an aftermarket equivalent.

https://www.amazon.com/Dalom-Ignition-Stratton-7HP-16HP-Horizontal/dp/B07FKFNZND/ref=asc_df_B07FKFNZND/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309836003692&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5405297517136523208&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1016367&hvtargid=pla-580028557424&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=67374862491&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309836003692&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5405297517136523208&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1016367&hvtargid=pla-580028557424

 

If by chance your engine does have points, I suggest replacing the original coil with a B&S 398811 or equivalent.  Bolt on application, no more points to worry about.

 

 

 

Ok, I installed new coil as suggested. Still won't start. Also have a new spark plug and fresh gas. Where do I go from here

[Brokeoldman 2]

13 minutes ago, Brokeoldman said:

Ok, I installed new coil as suggested. Still won't start. Also have a new spark plug and fresh gas. Where do I go from here

I also checked the plug after cranking the motor a few cycles and it doesn't "appear" to be getting gas in the cylinder. Carb has been cleaned, air filter is off right now, and I visibly have gas in the carburetor 

[Achto 26,796]

4 hours ago, Brokeoldman said:

On 7/7/2022 at 9:06 AM, Achto said:

 

Ok, I installed new coil as suggested. Still won't start.

 

Do you have spark with the kill wire unplugged. 

[953 nut 52,556]

On 7/6/2022 at 6:58 PM, 953 nut said:

@Brokeoldman, have you taken the time to open the service manual for your engine? Section two is all about your ignition system and tests that you can do. I attached the manual to post 13 yesterday.

What were the results of testing your ignition components?        Hate to see people throw away money on parts you don't need.

[Brokeoldman 2]

5 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

What were the results of testing your ignition components?        Hate to see people throw away money on parts you don't need.

I started with verification of plug gap, and tested spark. Installed new coil. I checked all the terminals on the key switch. I also checked the starter. The only thing I didn't do on the manual was the stop switch yet.

[Brokeoldman 2]

On 7/10/2022 at 6:50 PM, Achto said:

 

Do you have spark with the kill wire unplugged. 

Yes I have spark. No fuel getting to cylinder. Plug will come out dry as a bone after cranking 

[Achto 26,796]

3 hours ago, Brokeoldman said:

Yes I have spark. No fuel getting to cylinder.

 

Now that we know you have a good coil. If you don't have spark with every thing hook up then it's time to trace through the safety switches to see which one is grounding out the coil. 

 

As for the fuel issue. Are you getting gas from the tank to the carb? 

If you do not have a fuel pump, pull the fuel line off from the carb and see if gas runs out of it.

If you have a fuel pump, pull the line off from the carb and turn the engine over. Gas should pulse out of the fuel line.

If you can't get gas out of the lines in the above tests then work your way back to the tank to find out why gas is not getting to the carb.

 

If you are getting gas to the carb then you need to pull the carb apart & clean it / rebuild it.