314-8 running but when you move the shifter from nuteralit shuts dow

[Applejuice 4]

I'm sure this has been covered in another thread but I need a bit of help I bought her used off a fella for 150$ and she is in pretty decent shape other then a tune up and new fuel pump and solonoid now she fires up and well when you go to put her in a gear and move the lever just a hair she dies so I'm assuming it's a switch. The seat switch was wired back on itself and it has the stupid turn the seat key for reverse option. I added a serial# tag pic. Any help would be great thanks in advance

[953 nut 52,274]

Here is a list of topics for your model number,   https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/search/?q=73449&quick=1&type=downloads_file

According to your wiring diagram if the PTO is on and the neutral safety switch is not in neutral it will activate the KILL RELAY. The wiring on these newer models is rather complicated, take a look at the diagram (first listing) and If you need further help let us know.

[Applejuice 4]

Yeah the pto is off just sitting in neutral and when you push the clutch in and put your hand on the shifter to go to a gear you just touch it to move it to another gear and it dies let it go back to home and keeps running

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

10 hours ago, Applejuice said:

The seat switch was wired back on itself

 

I believe that you mean that the seat switch has been bypassed?

 

Check the connections... [edit:  no... scratch that.  If the seat switch (or the bypass wires) were not making connection, you would not be able to start it.)

So in that case, it seems that the park switch or NMIR module (or wiring) are the issue... BUT, see the bold about the parking brake, below...

 

You should also check the park switch.  If that switch is not closing, the kill relay will function once you leave neutral.

 

It appears that if you try to put it in gear when the parking brake is engaged, the kill relay will stop the engine.  So, take the parking brake off and try it again.

 

 

 

 

 

It's also possible that there's a problem with the NMIR module because that supplies the ground to the Kill Relay once you leave neutral.

 

 

 

The logic is complicated...  but this is where I would start.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Jeff-C175

[Applejuice 4]

Yup parking brake is off and was off but I will start with what you highlighted.. I appreciate it the machine is really in great shape I'm just trying to bring it back to life is all!

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

1 minute ago, Applejuice said:

Yup parking brake is off and was off but I will start with what you highlighted.. I appreciate it the machine is really in great shape I'm just trying to bring it back to life is all!

 

Do you own and know how to use a multimeter?  We could guide you through some things to check.

 

 

[Applejuice 4]

I own and know how to use one yes.

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

5 minutes ago, Applejuice said:

I own and know how to use one yes.

 

Cool...  locate the parking brake switch and with the brake OFF you should see continuity across that switch.  (Ignition OFF for this one)

 

You'll need the ignition on to check the NMIR module... and you could do it a few ways...  I'm not familiar with what that module looks like, but you need to look for continuity across pins 1 and 3 of the module.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Jeff-C175

[953 nut 52,274]

I don't own a  that is equipped with the NMIR feature but I understand there is an override switch on that system. Have you attempted to go into gear while that switch is activated?

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

@Applejuice

 

I've made a few notations on the schematic that may help you understand the logic.

 

For the engine to RUN, the K1 KILL RELAY must be ENERGIZED.

 

In order for the K1 KILL RELAY to REMAIN ENERGIZED,  you need to have 12V on the Yellow wire, and Ground on the Tan wire.  (terminals 2 and 5 on the relay)

 

Let's look at how this happens...

 

When engine is RUNNING, and operator is IN SEAT, 12V supplied to K1 through K2 interlock relay  OR  through DISengaged PTO switch AND K4 relay in NEUTRAL.

If as you say, your seat switch is BYPASSED the position of K4 makes NO DIFFERENCE... it's not doing anything at all.  Problem is NOT there.

 

Again with ENGINE RUNNING,  GROUND is supplied to K1 KILL RELAY by the K3 Neutral Relay IN NEUTRAL position,  OR  through the S3 PARK SWITCH which is CLOSED when Park Brake is DISengaged, via the bottom relay in the NMIR module.   And, by following the schematic you can see that the park switch gets it's GROUND on the Violet wire coming from the NMIR module bottom relay, which must be energized.

 

There are three conditions that will energize the NMIR module:

1. PTO DISengaged:  12V from the PTO switch on the GRAY wire to terminal 4 and through the diode to energize the relay.

2. PTO ENGAGED:  12V from the PTO switch on the WHITE wire, through the REVERSE SWITCH, on the BROWN wire, to terminal 5, through the diode to energize the relay.

3. PTO ENGAGED: 12V from the PTO switch on the WHITE wire again, but through the OVER RIDE SWITCH if it is engaged, to terminal 2 on the GREEN wire, through the diode to energize the relay.

 

Info point:  The three diodes in the NMIR module are known as " OR-ing diodes ".  12V on terminal 2 OR terminal 4 OR terminal 5 will energize the bottom relay.

 

The TOP relay in the NMIR module LATCHES when you operate the momentary OVER RIDE SWITCH, UNTIL you disengage the PTO. 

The BOTTOM relay in the NMIR module is what provides the GROUND to the K1 KILL RELAY.

 

I am 99.99% certain that you will find the GROUND going away from the K1 KILL RELAY when you exit NEUTRAL.

And that the fault will either be with the PARK SWITCH, OR with the NMIR module and/or it's associated wiring.

 

I don't advocate bypassing safety devices, but I personally think the whole NMIR thing is OSHA BULLPOOP.   I mean... serisouly... who wants to disengage the PTO every time you need to reverse while mowing?  If I had that on my machines I would be doing that action at least 100 times every time I mow my property... maybe even more, I never actually counted.  (see below for diagram to bypass NMIR)

 

I think that you SHOULD ABSOLUTELY restore the function of the SEAT SWITCH though.

 

 

 

How to bypass NMIR module:  Take the Violet wire from the Park Switch to GROUND permanently.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Jeff-C175

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,551]

Download colored wiring if it would help

 

[Handy Don 10,759]

7 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

who wants to disengage the PTO every time you need to reverse while mowing?

This has always mystified me, too, and I've never even found a justification for it that wasn't gobbledygook.

I'm kinda surprised the NMIR thing didn't also mandate a backup beeper. The beeper maker lobbyists musta been on vacation that week.

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

This has always mystified me, too, and I've never even found a justification for it that wasn't gobbledygook.

I'm kinda surprised the NMIR thing didn't also mandate a backup beeper. The beeper maker lobbyists musta been on vacation that week.

 

 

Of course the keyswitch to override NMIR only needs to be hit once as the relay latches, but it will still unlatch every time the PTO is disengaged.

 

But yeah... it's dumb.

 

Probably ONE TIME someone got sued because someone was stupid and the liability lawyers went to town.

 

What ever happened to 'natural selection' ?  

 

 

[Applejuice 4]

Got her all fixed up today just need to order a new relay on the starter side...

 

[Applejuice 4]

Thank you for the help everyone.. a few checks with the ohm meter as instructed go her on the straight and narrow.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

7 hours ago, Applejuice said:

Got her all fixed up today just need to order a new relay on the starter side...

 

 

Which relay?

 

What did you find?

 

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Jeff-C175

[Applejuice 4]

So the relay on the right hand side of the solonoid was loose/ going bad so I had a parts machine laying here so I swapped it out. Also the brake lever was not striking the switch/ the switch was bad.

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

1 hour ago, Applejuice said:

brake lever was not striking the switch/ the switch was bad.

 

Thanks, that's what I thought you would find.

 

Good luck with it!

 

 

[Capespencer68 3]

On 6/26/2022 at 1:06 PM, Applejuice said:

I'm sure this has been covered in another thread but I need a bit of help I bought her used off a fella for 150$ and she is in pretty decent shape other then a tune up and new fuel pump and solonoid now she fires up and well when you go to put her in a gear and move the lever just a hair she dies so I'm assuming it's a switch. The seat switch was wired back on itself and it has the stupid turn the seat key for reverse option. I added a serial# tag pic. Any help would be great thanks in advance

Out of curiosity what year is this 214-8 ?

[Applejuice 4]

It's a 314-8 and I would guess 96 or 97