Mower deck bogs down to easy. Attach-A-Matic belt tension wrong?

[the jeep driver 29]

Hello again.... 
I have a 1985 Wheel Horse 417A with a 17 HP Kohler Engine, with a 1989 Toro 42" Rear-Discharge Mower Deck, 15-42RC01 attached.  I am the third owner, the PO didn't mow with it at all, only used the plow for snow removal.  I bought it in 2012.  I've gone all through it since then, with a lot of help from this Forum.
 

My issue is, the tractor has always seemed underpowered to me, at least when it comes to cutting grass.  The blades with stop spinning in grass that my 5 hp Craftsman push mower will cut.  At first, I assumed that this was a design flaw with the attachment set up.  (Don't judge!   I didn't know anything about Wheel Horse at the time, I just knew I'd found a cheap used mower.)

The mower does cut fine; does a nice job as long as the grass isn't too high.  Blades are sharp, belts are newer, replaced last year, deck is lubed, etc... what am I doing wrong?  Maybe something with the tension of the 'Attach-A-Matic' belt tension?  I was told by a mechanic that'd I'd likely had the tension too tight last year and that was the reason the belt broke.  But I've no idea on how to test for correct tension.  

Again, I'm able to do my yard fine, as my yard is maintained.  I'm attempting to help a widow down the road; her grass hadn't been cut yet this year, and I don't think much last year.  I became aware of the need and tried to mow her yard on Sunday.  It was too high, and I called my Dad to bring over his big zero-turn.  He knocked it down, and today I tried to mow over it to even it all out, with the deck at the highest setting.  It just won't do it without the blades stopping.  The Wheel Horse absolutely should be able to cut this grass.  What is wrong?!? 

[8ntruck 6,358]

Two things I see in your picture:

 

For a mower deck, the belt should be on the large step of the pulley, nearest to the engine.  The bigger pulley will give you a higher blade speed, and take up some more belt, making it easier to tension.  I tighten the belt until I can only squeeze the writhing an inch of each other halfway between the PTO pulley and muel drive.

 

It looks like there is an extra twist in the belt between the lower side of the PTO pulley and the muel drive.

 

Horsepower is not your issue, as I am running a 42" deck on my 14-8 without any problems.

 

Good luck. 

[953 nut 51,539]

How freely do the blades on the deck turn with the drive belt removed? How about the mule drive pullies? 

As @8ntruck noted the belt from the PTO should be on the larger pulley to increase blade tip speed and you should remove  twist in the belt and tighten it by turning the knob counterclockwise.

[Marv 845]

There is also the possibility that the clutch slips under those conditions. Rare for the clutch to slip but if the tension is not right it can.

Marv

[the jeep driver 29]

58 minutes ago, 8ntruck said:

Two things I see in your picture:

 

For a mower deck, the belt should be on the large step of the pulley, nearest to the engine.  The bigger pulley will give you a higher blade speed, and take up some more belt, making it easier to tension.  I tighten the belt until I can only squeeze the writhing an inch of each other halfway between the PTO pulley and muel drive.

 

It looks like there is an extra twist in the belt between the lower side of the PTO pulley and the muel drive.

 

Horsepower is not your issue, as I am running a 42" deck on my 14-8 without any problems.

 

Good luck. 

I moved the belt to the correct pulley and got rid of that twist. 

I don't know what you and 953 Nut mean by "mule," but it has to be the piece labeled Attach-A-Matic with the pulleys... so the area I've circled is where you squeeze to check for an inch between the two? 

[the jeep driver 29]

23 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

How freely do the blades on the deck turn with the drive belt removed? How about the mule drive pullies? 

As @8ntruck noted the belt from the PTO should be on the larger pulley to increase blade tip speed and you should remove  twist in the belt and tighten it by turning the knob counterclockwise.

With the belts off, blades and pulleys spin freely. 

[daveoman1966 3,586]

Thew belt should deflect 3/4" or so where your red circle is.  Have you checked to see that the Spring-loaded FLOATING idler pulley on the deck is not obstructed in any way.  This pulley MUST be free floating. This is a 42" deck...same setup for the 48" and others.   

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

When the blades stop, does the PTO pulley also stop?  If so, then either the clutch disk is worn or it's misadjusted.

 

If the blades stop but the pulley keeps going, it's either a tension issue or a worn belt.

[8ntruck 6,358]

Yup.  The bracket and pullies  labled Attach-a-matic is what is often referred to as the mule, or mule drive, or mule kicker.  You are also correct with your location to check the belt tension.

 

If the performance of the deck does not improve, you probably have something going on with the PTO clutch, or the linkage that activates the PTO clutch. 

 

Let us know how your changes worked out.  We can guide you through PTO issues as well.

Edited May 18, 2022 by 8ntruck

[the jeep driver 29]

 

1 hour ago, 8ntruck said:

Yup.  The bracket and pullies  labled Attach-a-matic is what is often referred to as the mule, or mule drive, or mule kicker.  You are also correct with your location to check the belt tension.

 

If the performance of the deck does not improve, you probably have something going on with the PTO clutch, or the linkage that activates the PTO clutch. 

 

Let us know how your changes worked out.  We can guide you through PTO issues as well.

After my last post, I drove back down to her house to test the mower.  It works like it should!  I was able to get it all mowed tonight. Thanks a lot!  
I can't believe I've been mowing with that belt on the wrong pulley all this time.... 

[the jeep driver 29]

1 hour ago, daveoman1966 said:

 Have you checked to see that the Spring-loaded FLOATING idler pulley on the deck is not obstructed in any way.  This pulley MUST be free floating. 

 

Yessir, I clean the mower after each use.  Well, not tonight, it was dark... but usually... 

Edited May 18, 2022 by the jeep driver

[8ntruck 6,358]

Glad everything worked out.  Dig through the manuals section of the forum.  There are probably manuals for both your tractor and your deck available to download.

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

56 minutes ago, the jeep driver said:

I clean the mower after each use

 

That's great!  BUT... you should take a look at some point to check the condition of the plastic parts that the idler bar is sliding on.  If those are worn out, your main deck drive belt could be turning, but the tension on the drive belt on the deck could be insufficient also.

 

But you say it's working OK now, so I guess you're good to go.

 

 

[oldlineman 1,450]

Great to hear that all is well all great remarks above!

[the jeep driver 29]

 

On 5/17/2022 at 8:14 PM, 8ntruck said:

Let us know how your changes worked out.  We can guide you through PTO issues as well.

 

I'm seeing some fraying on the belt.  I stood in front of the tractor and watched the belt move with the blades engaged.  The belt was rubbing the clutch pulley.  What could be causing this?  It didn't rub all the time... I'll get a picture of the worst of it...

 

Well, as I went out to take a picture of belt, I noticed the pad is broken off the clutch brake. Is that causing the rubbing/fraying?  Ugh.... Looking at the picture I posted on Tuesday, it looks like the pad may have been broken when I mowed the other night...  And there's a groove worn in the clutch from the pads rivet rubbing... 

[oldlineman 1,450]

the belt looks to be upside down, when they do that you must change it, will not stay right side up. 

[the jeep driver 29]

8 minutes ago, oldlineman said:

the belt looks to be upside down, when they do that you must change it, will not stay right side up. 

 X 2 .... And the belt is twisted again.... it was pointed out to me on Tuesday that it was twisted and I took it off and "fixed" it... so what causes the belt to twist in the first place?  It's only been on for one season... 

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

1 hour ago, the jeep driver said:

pad is broken off the clutch brake. Is that causing the rubbing/fraying?

 

No.

 

 

[oldlineman 1,450]

You need to replace the belt, once they roll over they are done for in my experience. Buy a good quality belt, some have had good luck with TSC belts, I have always used Wheel Horse belts with great results. Bob

[daveoman1966 3,586]

A belt that is NOT designed to PERFECTLY match the geometery of the 'V' pulley(s) will 'roll-ovber'.  After-market belts are typically too narrow, too shallow, or just not the EXACT match.  Once the belt rolls over, FUBAR.  there is no recovery and making more tension on the belt to 'make it work' only strains the pulley bearings.  Been there...dun that .  Just spend a few bux more and get the OEM belt.   

[Handy Don 10,567]

Just to dot the i's and cross the t's....

Once you have the belt off, make sure the bearings in the mule are good and there is no wobble or grinding.

Make sure there is nothing rubbing the belt as it routes to the deck.

Confirm that the driven pulley on the deck is not damaged.

Can you give get a picture showing how the replacement belt tracks on the mule pulleys?

[the jeep driver 29]

52 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

 

Can you give get a picture showing how the replacement belt tracks on the mule pulleys?

I've got the routing diagram that's on the mower deck, if that's what you mean.  

 

1 hour ago, daveoman1966 said:

Just spend a few bux more and get the OEM belt.   

That belt was an OEM... I say "was" cause it broke... I went to the Toro dealer after my last post and bought a new clutch brake pad.  Installed and started mowing again... for about 20 minutes... 

EDIT: Belt 108834 was replaced 06/30/20. 

Edited May 20, 2022 by the jeep driver

[Handy Don 10,567]

Hi. I meant a picture of your actual installed belt where it enters and exits the front mule. I just want to be sure that the pulleys there are aligned. My other ideas were to check the rest of the belt's route for things that can cause damage.

[peter lena 8,038]

@the jeep driver   how did you make out on your  mule  drive problem ? when you are setting that belt drive up can you easily move it by hand and verify tracking and ease of motion ? did you ever pull off the pto outer drive cone and lubricate the needle bearing in there ? needs a hi temp anti sling grease , or it will scatter to your clutch face . I  simply wipe the bearing clean and use a small amount of lucas xtra heavy duty chassis grease , also use that in my mule bearings and deck spindles , don,t use the , clutch break , the cone spins with no effort , no problem . also notice your deck carriage  hanger needs to be firmed up for solid square lifting ease . lubricate all related linkage points . your belt spin up by hand will show you how your belt is tracking , and also the effort to make it move . pete 

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

Looking at your pics, it appears to me that you've got some sort of alignment issue with that belt.  It should come out of the PTO pulley in a much straighter fashion.

 

I think I see the same problem at the mule drive.

 

Is something bent at the mule drive?  Are the pulleys on the mule drive in the correct order?  There are two spacers between the pulleys on the mule drive, they are different sizes are they in the correct position?

Edited May 21, 2022 by Jeff-C175