Getting two KT17's going

[Maxwell-8 4,367]

Got two non running KT17's.

Both for in my Blackhood C-175's

One is 69 engines later build then the other.

The one currently installed in my C175 hydro was bought separate some time ago.

It doesn't not have spark. 

 

The loose engine was the original engine on the C-175 8 speed.

It has oil in the rear cylinder. Is that even possible with correctly filled engine oil? 

Compression in the front is only 72 PSI, but the rear cylinder(the one with oil has a decent 110 PSI. the M16 coming of the C-175 hydro has 140PSI of compression (all are measured cold)

How much PSI does a kohled need to be considered healthy? You think this one could run with the current compression? 

 

This one does not have spark either.

 

 

[ranger 1,798]

6 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said:

Got two non running KT17's.

Both for in my Blackhood C-175's

One is 69 engines later build then the other.

The one currently installed in my C175 hydro was bought separate some time ago.

It doesn't not have spark. 

 

The loose engine was the original engine on the C-175 8 speed.

It has oil in the rear cylinder. Is that even possible with correctly filled engine oil? 

Compression in the front is only 72 PSI, but the rear cylinder(the one with oil has a decent 110 PSI. the M16 coming of the C-175 hydro has 140PSI of compression (all are measured cold)

How much PSI does a kohled need to be considered healthy? You think this one could run with the current compression? 

 

This one does not have spark either.

 

 

It sounds like the oil in the rear cylinder is causing the rings to seal a little better, and raising the compression readings. Try injecting some oil into the front cylinder and see if it raises the figure for that pot also. If it doesn’t, then it’s probably valves leaking.

[pacer 3,177]

Oil in the cyl generally isnt good news, youll prob have to find whats causing that.... but, you have to have spark to do anything!!

 

Those KT's were .... rather prone? for the coil to fail, that would be my first place to ck. I believe? there is an import line of coils out now on the bay at a reasonable price -- Just about any 2 wire coil will tell you if thats the problem.

[953 nut 59,890]

I've heard that a Harley Davidson coil is the way to go.       Lots of people sell them and they don't want to sell any inferior parts or else!     

[953 nut 59,890]

3 hours ago, Maxwell-8 said:

It has oil in the rear cylinder. Is that even possible with correctly filled engine oil?

           Could it be that the engine got tilted back while handling it?

[WHX?? 51,732]

Not to be the bad guy here Max but you do know these twins were not one of Kohlers best inventions.

I'm with Pacer on the coil thing but sadly oil in the top end of the jug is never good. Unless Nut's theory is true but even then it would have to be tipped quite some time unless we have ring/bore problems. 

[Maxwell-8 4,367]

10 hours ago, pacer said:

Oil in the cyl generally isnt good news, youll prob have to find whats causing that.... but, you have to have spark to do anything!!

 

Those KT's were .... rather prone? for the coil to fail, that would be my first place to ck. I believe? there is an import line of coils out now on the bay at a reasonable price -- Just about any 2 wire coil will tell you if thats the problem.

 

9 hours ago, 953 nut said:

I've heard that a Harley Davidson coil is the way to go.       Lots of people sell them and they don't want to sell any inferior parts or else!     

I have a Harley coil on the the kt17 in the c-175 auto. Put in a nice shiny NOS condenser. 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, 953 nut said:

           Could it be that the engine got tilted back while handling it?

 

8 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Not to be the bad guy here Max but you do know these twins were not one of Kohlers best inventions.

I'm with Pacer on the coil thing but sadly oil in the top end of the jug is never good. Unless Nut's theory is true but even then it would have to be tipped quite some time unless we have ring/bore problems. 

I forgot to strap it down on the way home. tipped over, briefly.

I am going to dissemble it and check for the bores.  

[Maxwell-8 4,367]

I am searching if whit correct oil level, oil comes in contact with the cylinder. 

 

Searched thru the manual and service manual. 

come across this. the difference between a series 1 and a series 2. 

Oil pressure is just 5PSI, which is barely anything. oil is sprayed from holes in the cam on to the crankshaft. therefore not being able to handle angles very well. 

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Maxwell-8

[953 nut 59,890]

2 hours ago, Maxwell-8 said:

Oil pressure is just 5PSI, which is barely anything. oil is sprayed from holes in the cam on to the crankshaft. therefore not being able to handle angles very well.

True, but that is 5 PSI more than a splash lubricated single cylinder and many of them are doing fine after fifty years or more of operation.  

[oliver2-44 10,702]

18 hours ago, Maxwell-8 said:

Got two non running KT17's.

 

@Maxwell-8 Are both these engines the Series II engines with oil pumps.

if yyou,re not sure post their serial numbers and the experts will let us know.

[WHX?? 51,732]

Should be able to check them bores.by just popping the heads. 

[Maxwell-8 4,367]

2 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

@Maxwell-8 Are both these engines the Series II engines with oil pumps.

if yyou,re not sure post their serial numbers and the experts will let us know.

I think they are both series 1 

9874310 and 9874379

making them build in 1979? 

2 hours ago, WHX?? said:

 

Should be able to check them bores.by just popping the heads. 

Currently waiting on the bench to pop the heads. (you sometimes forget how big these engine are)

I think I have leaking valves, because squirting some oil didn't help with compression. 

 

 

[pfrederi 18,644]

2 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Should be able to check them bores.by just popping the heads. 

  Sounds easy but you have to take off virtually all the sheet metal to do that...  and there are a lot of little bolts many of which may be seized or will break off. 

[pacer 3,177]

Was just rereading the posts and by just reading them you could get the impression that these are not very good engines, but that is not true. They are a leeetle bit less desirable as the single cylinders, but when running right and good maintenance is given them - (keeping in mind not to get on any steep grades!) they are a pretty darn good engine, and last you a long time. I really like the ... tone? of the motor when its up on the throttle and working.

 

And yes old harley coils will work and the big 4-500 series of the Kohler also, (the one in @Maxwell-8 pic is one) and prolly others like the twin Onans.

[Bill D 2,246]

Clean the points before you condemn the coil.  If they are Series 1 engines, hopefully they were used on flat ground.

[Maxwell-8 4,367]

1 hour ago, Bill D said:

Clean the points before you condemn the coil.  If they are Series 1 engines, hopefully they were used on flat ground.

Found out that when I turned the key to much when cranking the kohler on the C175 hydro( the one mounted) It would loss power to the coil.

So cranking not so hard I have spark. I got her to sputter with starter fluid. So I am going to clean the carb.

[Maxwell-8 4,367]

00:00 is the current time here:

Couldn't go to bed before popping those heads, so I did. 

Only 2 bolts from the shrouds broke.

One intake valve on the lower compression side can be spun around the full cycle.

I can see the honing marks on the sides, but is gone on the top an bottom part of the bore.

 

With my finger, I can't feel the transition of where the rings go an don't go. If any, I can feel a bit carbon build up.

I think it may have a shot of getting it back running. 

I just cleaned the cylinderwalls, let's see I f there is oil tomorrow

front cylinder: low compression

 

Rear cylinder: had some oil in it

 

 

[Maxwell-8 4,367]

Both are series 1 since the spec number is 24125

[Maxwell-8 4,367]

No valve clearance on both sides.

I have never seen this. The engine must have a lot of hours on it then? 

 

FRONT:

 

REAR:

[Maxwell-8 4,367]

I can spin all 4 valves with my fingers. Is this normal? don't think so, but would it effect compression that much? 

[lynnmor 7,813]

19 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said:

I can spin all 4 valves with my fingers. Is this normal? don't think so, but would it effect compression that much? 

No, not normal.

 

Yes, spinning the valves may be near zero to a lot of opening.

 

With the buildup on the intake valve area, the valve guides are probably worn.

[Maxwell-8 4,367]

4 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

No, not normal.

 

Yes, spinning the valves may be near zero to a lot of opening.

 

With the buildup on the intake valve area, the valve guides are probably worn.

The  heads were full of carbon buildup

 

 

 

Can the valve guides be replaced? 

Or should a just set the valve lash and maybe regrind the valve seats? 

[lynnmor 7,813]

8 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said:

The  heads were full of carbon buildup

Can the valve guides be replaced? 

Or should a just set the valve lash and maybe regrind the valve seats? 

 

Looks like you have worn rings, maybe other wear.

Valve guides can be replaced.

Yes, grind the valve seats and adjust.

[Maxwell-8 4,367]

2 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

 

Looks like you have worn rings, maybe other wear.

Valve guides can be replaced.

Yes, grind the valve seats and adjust.

Thanks a lot for your input sir. 

No idea how many hours are on the engine but I assume a lot.

Could I reuse the old headgaskets just to test compression, because they are hard to find and super expensive. I need to now if the engine needs a full rebuild.  Because if it needs it, I am done. Parts are untraceable here and would have to import most of it from the US.

[pfrederi 18,644]

Valve guides can be replaced but there are 4 of them and they are $32 Each!!!  if you can find them,    valves about $90 for 4.  Check at some point Kohler changed 30 degree and 45degree...

 

Like my KT17s but after rebuilding an M-18 and the price invoved will not do it for a KT17....

Edited March 6, 2022 by pfrederi