Regulator/rectifier trouble

[Rusty Tinsnips 477]

One day getting ready to plow snow and the Raider 14 won't start due to low battery. This is a new battery put in 2 months ago. I jump start it and I notice the ammeter is showing about 5v discharge. So after plowing I check the battery with a digital meter and it shows about 12v when not running and 12 to 15 (all over the place) when running. Today I put a new regulator on and get 15v to 16v running. Battery has been on a tender for a week or so. It reads 13.6 not running. This is what I see when I took the old one off. The ammeter still shows 5v discharge and around 7v discharge with lights on when running.

[oldlineman 1,513]

I would say remove the amp meter and install a voltmeter. 

[squonk 43,361]

That regulator is just about toast. Get a new one. Clean the mounting surface so it gets a good ground and clean/replace the wire terminals. Most likely the wire connections got funky and it increased the amps flowing through the regulator and started a nice slow cook.

[Rusty Tinsnips 477]

20 minutes ago, oldlineman said:

I would say remove the amp meter and install a voltmeter. 

That is in the plan. Thanks.

[pacer 3,176]

Yep, thats a familiar sight around my shop. Those .... blankety blankety ammeters 

 

Glad to see youre going to a volt meter!!

[Pullstart 65,781]

17 hours ago, Rusty Tinsnips said:

ammeter is showing about 5v discharge

 

17 hours ago, Rusty Tinsnips said:

ammeter still shows 5v discharge and around 7v discharge with lights on

I know that you know what’s going on, but just to clarify it’s reading an amperage draw… not voltage.    

[Roger R 458]

Volt meter change out is a good idea, however your ammeter seems to be doing the job its designed for.  Check the AC output of the alternator before changing anything.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,390]

Try this.

Turn the ignition switch to the RUN position with the engine not running.

Check voltage across battery terminals.

Move red test lead to the DC+ on the regulator. Should have same voltage as across battery lugs.

If not the same voltage fix the wiring between the regulator DC+ terminal and the battery. It likely passes through the ignition switch.

The regulator requires battery voltage to turn it on before it can regulate the stator charge current.

[squonk 43,361]

If you really want to know what your charging voltage is, buy a cheap analog voltmeter. I have seen many digital meters no matter what brand or price level give wild fluctuating readings on a running engine

 

[Handy Don 13,683]

18 minutes ago, squonk said:

If you really want to know what your charging voltage is, buy a cheap analog voltmeter. I have seen many digital meters no matter what brand or price level give wild fluctuating readings on a running engine

 

Especially true with the S/G regulators "pulsing" the charge!

[Rusty Tinsnips 477]

5 hours ago, Roger R said:

Check the AC output of the alternator before changing anything.

I checked that first and got around 30v.

 

6 hours ago, Pullstart said:

I know that you know what’s going on

maybe...

[Rusty Tinsnips 477]

4 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

Move red test lead to the DC+ on the regulator. Should have same voltage as across battery lugs.

Thanks, will do. At the battery now, I get 15v to 16v at full throttle. But the gauge still shows negative. With key OFF the gauge is centered.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,390]

31 minutes ago, Rusty Tinsnips said:

But the gauge still shows negative. With key OFF the gauge is centered.

There is a good chance the ammeter is wired backwards.

To reverse the gauge leads remove the negative cable from the battery and then reverse the ammeter leads. Reconnect negative battery cable.

 

Before - The ammeter still shows 5v  amps discharge and around 7v amps discharge with lights on when running

After suspected - The ammeter shows 5 amps charge and around 7 amps charge with lights on when running

 

[Rusty Tinsnips 477]

1 minute ago, gwest_ca said:

There is a good chance the ammeter is wired backwards.

lol

I never would have thought of that. It does make sense. It is exhibiting strange behavior. Thanks.

[953 nut 59,249]

21 hours ago, squonk said:

I have seen many digital meters no matter what brand or price level give wild fluctuating readings on a running engine

If the digital meter is anywhere close to the flywheel the rotating magnetic field of the flywheel will be picked up by induction and cause fluctuations.      

[WHX?? 51,370]

I have two of these now https://www.ebay.com/itm/303334048943 with good luck. 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by WHX??
flip pic

[Handy Don 13,683]

1 hour ago, WHX?? said:

I have two of these now https://www.ebay.com/itm/303334048943 with good luck. 

How does one interpret the red and orange dots?

[WHX?? 51,370]

I forget exactly what voltage the lights transition at. In a nut shell the lower the voltage drops the more the orange lights drop out. Once it it hits about 13 volts a series of green lights start. So green is charging good, orange is ok and red is you is just running on battery and gonna run out of go juice. 

 

It was just meant to be some eye candy for a custom 1055 build. I liked it so much that got one for a C-145 to replace a ammeter that was useless. The 145 had no regulator just a rectifier that overcharged with long seat times so this was a really a nice way to monitor and avoid cooking the battery. If the voltage got too high I flip the headlights on to bring the voltage back down. 

For less than a Jackson I really expected it to only last a couple of years but going on what three now and still works good. 

 

Build thread here...

 

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

On 3/2/2022 at 2:36 PM, Rusty Tinsnips said:

15v to 16v at full throttle

 

If you're seeing that much voltage at the battery you are charging the living poop out of that battery.  Probably cooking it.

 

OR, the battery is really bad, and already cooked.

 

Voltmeters are fine... but IMHO an Ammeter is also necessary.

 

 

[WHX?? 51,370]

7 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Probably cooking it.

Medium rare here... 

[MAD MARK 74]

On 3/4/2022 at 12:33 PM, Handy Don said:

How does one interpret the red and orange dots?

 

Direct analog    8~10.5V         11-12.5V               13~18 V
LED 20 pcs       red x 6 pcs    yellow x 4 pcs    green x 10 pcs

[peter lena 9,189]

@Rusty Tinsnips  do a ground check , see if that helps stabilize the issue , go from battery ground cable bolt  point to mount bolts on that , regularly use small alligator clip test wires to verify what's working , that cooling  tin work is often corroded and rarely grounded .  since upgrading all my grounding areas , my electrical issues  are gone , just a suggestion , pete 

[peter lena 9,189]

@Rusty Tinsnips    notice the yellow electrical  lug fitting , in the picture ? was having erratic charging issues ,since  adding this and similar ground wires to my electrical set up , the problems are gone .BASE LINE  , another separate battery cable from battery bolt area behind dash  , to engine corner / frame area , near clutch pedal . bolt on 3/8 electrical lug , dielectric grease , serrated washers , from there run 10-12 ga wire to rectifier mount on cooling tin point , and from there to headlights , tell me how that works. lots of starts , no problems , keep it grounded , pete