Winter fun - Project “Freedom” 440cc 2 Stroke 1054 Snowmotractor

[Pullstart 59,858]

@wallfish. I don’t get this.  I think you’re right, but this tells me we’re wrong?

 

 

[Pullstart 59,858]

This is a 3 speed.  Does the brake shaft spin opposite the speed?  I think it does.  Then, what would that do to my calculations and gear ratios?

[wallfish 15,958]

You would be good spinning that brake shaft backwards. It clearly spins backwards so there's another gear inside or one less. The brake band also works that direction confirming it's rotation direction is backwards

[Pullstart 59,858]

1 minute ago, wallfish said:

You would be good spinning that brake shaft backwards. It clearly spins backwards so there's another gear inside or one less. The brake band also works that direction confirming it's rotation direction is backwards

Now I need to count the gears on a 3 speed to figure out the ratio.  More mathin’ coming right up!

[Pullstart 59,858]

The donor pillow bearing is being pressed off the shaft.  Rusty, but fairly free.  The shaft and collar that is, the bearing is greased and smooth.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Pullstart
Photo

[wallfish 15,958]

8 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

Then, what would that do to my calculations and gear ratios?

A calculator won't tell you the actual "feel" of it when riding it or the control and safety of it. IMO build it like you have it figured out now and ride it. That will tell you what, if anything else needs to be done as a necessity or as an option. Changing the pulley sizes later to adjust speed is always there.

 

 

[Pullstart 59,858]

The jackshaft is not a true 1” across.  It is 1.030” in the center.  I need to press the bearing off this shaft in order to chuck it up in the lathe and turn it down.  Notice between some years, the Jack shaft went from a keyed hub to a splined hub.  For reference, the bearing is 4.310” from the end of the shaft.  I am not sure if it’s on a shoulder or not at this time.

[Pullstart 59,858]

The shaft is cleaned up and turned down.

 

 

[Pullstart 59,858]

Here we go.  The 3/6 speed brake drum is only on the mushroom gear I think it’s called.  Close enough for horseshoes and hand grenades, I’m going to assume the 43:11 gear ratio, or 3.91:1.  Somewhere between the jackshaft and brake input I need another 4.26:1 or I’ll have a measly 11.73 mph.  Not near good enough for all the work!  
 

*edit* the lower the reduction, the faster.  It would be like a calculated 200 mph.  Likely still no torque, so I need close to 4:1 to slow it down and gain the torque required to go.

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Pullstart

[Pullstart 59,858]

@wallfish @Wild Bill 633 @Bens vintage tractors @Ed Kennell what about a serpentine style belt for the final drive from the jack shaft?  Easier to route if not in a straight line, better radius ability, etc.

 

 

[wallfish 15,958]

I couldn't find the different size pulleys and belts for that. I assume you're referring to something like a modern auto engine belt style right?

I have the pulley from a alternator and 2 flat tensioner idlers and the old belt off my van. Found it difficult to find custom size stuff.

 

What about thinking like the mower deck mule drive route?

Edited January 15, 2023 by wallfish

[Oldskool 6,582]

I've been trying to catch up on this build.

It's been a great build from the start.

Between being a bit sleepy eyed and bad cell service I think I've lost something somewhere. 

Are you going off the brake shaft for the drive direction or the internal gear reduction?

 

[Pullstart 59,858]

30 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

I've been trying to catch up on this build.

It's been a great build from the start.

Between being a bit sleepy eyed and bad cell service I think I've lost something somewhere. 

Are you going off the brake shaft for the drive direction or the internal gear reduction?

 

Both.  The input shaft is too far reduced and won’t be fast enough.

[Oldskool 6,582]

22 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

Both.  The input shaft is too far reduced and won’t be fast enough.

It's unfortunate the reduction is so low.

Excuse the drawing but I was hoping this would help.

[8ntruck 6,419]

8 hours ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

I thought that was a Florida mosquito st first...

 

Nope.  That one came out of Michigan's Upper Peninsula.

[Pullstart 59,858]

9 hours ago, Oldskool said:

It's unfortunate the reduction is so low.

Excuse the drawing but I was hoping this would help.

If I were running the 8 speed transmission, that would could might should be my jam.  That’s how Wheel Horse snowblowers run the paddle auger.

[wallfish 15,958]

8 hours ago, Pullstart said:

Both.  The input shaft is too far reduced and won’t be fast enough.

Wasn't it doing about 25 mph on the original setup without that variable driven pulley set up?

 

My 2 cents advise would be to start by putting the same size fixed pulley as the closed variable engine pulley was to begin with ( think it was about 5" but IDK) behind the variable driven pulley on the jack shaft and belt it to the same input pulley you had on there to begin with. You will see quite an improvement for the low end torque and the high end speed through those variable pulleys. That variable setup should just about double the rpm at full speed of those pulleys but the drag of everything will slow it down some. Leave the jack shaft long just in case you still want or need to drive the brake shaft.

 

The driven variable pulley must open up and get smaller the same ratio the variable drive pulley closes to get bigger because the belt between them is a fixed length. Resistance through the mechanical things, engine torque, belt slippage and the force of driving it will limit how much they can change sizes so that's a pretty tough calculation to do in advance.   Even 40 mph would be a nice improvement and then go from there? You can probably get some real world data and experience with it pretty quickly with minimal modifications by trying it that way. Think you will be happy with those results but that should tell you if you can add a larger pulley than that 5" for increase of top end speed. Use steel pulleys

( Trial and error is my way of calculating things. LoL )

 

 

 

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,238]

Maybe @joebob can help here Kevin.  This is his "Ice Racer".  It's a rocket.

 

 

[Wild Bill 633 770]

The 1054 has a 3-speed transaxle. All CW/CCW shaft rotations are described looking at the end of the shaft. I believe the brake shaft on the 3-speed transaxle rotates CW and opposite the axle CCW. Please confirm.

The engine, CVT driver, CVT driven and jack shaft rotate CCW, looking at the RH side. Therefore, the jack shaft and driver belt pulley rotate CW looking at the LH side and going the same direction as the brake shaft.

Just need the 3-speed transaxle brake to axle shaft ratio and brake shaft size (1.00" diameter ?) to determine pulley ratio and sizes.  

Edited January 15, 2023 by Wild Bill 633

[wallfish 15,958]

Taking a closer look at that variable set up --  it probably does change closer to just a bit faster than 1:1 like your calculation described. Back to the brake shaft. I was think'n more like the go kart type

 

 

[Pullstart 59,858]

1 hour ago, wallfish said:

Wasn't it doing about 25 mph on the original setup without that variable driven pulley set up?

 

My 2 cents advise would be to start by putting the same size fixed pulley as the closed variable engine pulley was to begin with ( think it was about 5" but IDK) behind the variable driven pulley on the jack shaft and belt it to the same input pulley you had on there to begin with. You will see quite an improvement for the low end torque and the high end speed through those variable pulleys. That variable setup should just about double the rpm at full speed of those pulleys but the drag of everything will slow it down some. Leave the jack shaft long just in case you still want or need to drive the brake shaft.

It was pretty quick, but belts weren’t lasting very long.  I’d like this to last a while without breaking, and takeoff smooth.  In 3rd gear, I was lucky to get it moving and not stall out.  

[Pullstart 59,858]

1 hour ago, Wild Bill 633 said:

The 1054 has a 3-speed transaxle. All CW/CCW shaft rotations are described looking at the end of the shaft. I believe the brake shaft on the 3-speed transaxle rotates CW and opposite the axle CCW. Please confirm.

 

Yes, they spin opposite.  They don’t have the first reduction set, just the middle mushroom shaft and the differential bull gear.

 

1 hour ago, Wild Bill 633 said:

The engine, CVT driver, CVT driven and jack shaft rotate CCW, looking at the RH side. Therefore, the jack shaft and driver belt pulley rotate CW looking at the LH side and going the same direction as the brake shaft.

Just need the 3-speed transaxle brake to axle shaft ratio and brake shaft size (1.00" diameter ?) to determine pulley ratio and sizes.  

The ratio here is 43:11, or 3.91:1.  I’m looking to make up 16.66:1 for that magic number, so I need another 4.26:1.  I’d likely take anything 15:1 to 17:1 if I find pulleys to make that.

[953 nut 51,940]

23 hours ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

50 mph

 

 

Queue the ...

 

Boy... when's you gonna learn ...???

 

                    50 MPH going forward is nothing; 25 MPH in reverse could be rather memorable though.        

[Wild Bill 633 770]

Engine Speed: 8000 RPM

CVT Ratio: 0.86:1

Jackshaft Speed: 9333 RPM, BK34X1" v-belt driver pulley, 3.55" OD (smallest pulley with 1" bore), 8674 FPM (>6500 FPM, machined from steel)

REVISED DRIVEN PULLEY SIZE BASED ON MY 3-SPD TRANSAXLE WILL ONLY ALLOW APPROX. 4" OD PULLEY.

Transaxle Input: (Reverse) shaft, 1B36SH v-belt driven pulley, 3.95" OD (I think this is the largest diameter that will fit envelope "VERIFY") w/ QD SH x 1" Bushing (1" shaft diameter?), 8674 FPM (>6500 FPM. machined from steel)

Transaxle Ratio: 3.91:1

Axle Shaft Speed: 2122 RPM

Tire Diameter: 30"

Calculated Top Speed: 189 MPH

Ready to race snowmobiles!

 

7000 RPM = 162 MPH

6000 RPM = 142 MPH

5000 RPM = 118 MPH

4000 RPM = 94 MPH

3000 RPM = 71 MPH

 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Wild Bill 633
Revised Driven Pulley Size

[Wild Bill 633 770]

@Pullstart, How does this look? Drive the transaxle on the input shaft.

Engine Speed: 8000 RPM

CVT Ratio: 0.86:1

Jackshaft Speed: 9333 RPM

Jackshaft V-belt Drive Pulley: BK40X1, 3.95" OD, Belt Speed: 9651 FPM, >6500 & <10,000 FPM, Pulley has to be machined from steel

Transaxle V-belt Driven Pulley: BK26X3/4 (For 3/4 input shaft diameter. Verify), 2.60" OD, Belt Speed: 9651 FPM, >6500 & <10,000 FPM, Pulley has to be machined from steel.

Transaxle Input Speed: 14,000 RPM

3rd Gear Ratio: 24.6:1

Axle Speed: 569 RPM

Tire: 30" Diameter

Calculated Top Speed: 50.8 MPH

 

1st Gear Ratio: 66.8:1 = 18.7 MPH

2nd Gear Ratio: 42.4:1 = 29.5 MPH

 

If you changed to an 8-speed transaxle. More friendly at shows.

1st Lo Ratio: 267.2:1 = 4.7 MPH

2nd Lo Ratio: 169.6:1 = 7.4 MPH

3Rd Lo Ratio 98.4:1 = 12.7 MPH

Edited January 16, 2023 by Wild Bill 633