C-125 snow blade mods for easier lifting

[Snoopy11 5,718]

5 hours ago, wallfish said:

What about something like this mounted to the front tach a matic? Just throwing stuff out there

Add a mechanical stop to the top as a winch tends to drift after cutting power. Down wouldn't matter with a chain.

Those cheapie $85 winches come with a remote hand switch that could be converted to a toe/foot switch fairly easy

@wallfish... your idea aligns with my thoughts exactly. 

 

4 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Forgive me if this has already been answered. Is there a concern for a linear actuator creating down pressure given consideration that most linear actuators are not designed to be forcefully impacted upon?

 

@ebinmaine.... you are on the money. Not only because the actuators are not designed to be pounded... but also because the downforce is VERY hard on the blade... SO... unless you plan on being very careful, I would steer away from that idea.

 

5 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

 If you were going to have a winch as your powered up / down, would there be a disadvantage to anyone to just leave the plow on the heavy side?

 

 

 

 

No, in my opinion, it would be using the plow within its design.

 

27 minutes ago, Gregor said:

I was thinking of a limit switch for travel. I would hate to have to bring my actuator to "near destruct mode" on every cycle.

Personally, I want to be able to stop or adjust the plow whenever I want. If I only want the plow to go down to 1/2 inch above ground, I want that ability. On a plow, I physically want to hold down a button so that my actuator will be at my command. 

 

24 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

They are designed to use full travel with no ill effects. Unless you had a need for variable "max" travel, I recommend getting only as long an actuator as you will use and using its full travel.

 

Are you planning on using the plow on unlevel ground? If so, you may want more travel. Measuring on level concrete, one would think that you only need to go down to the concrete. That logic is great, until you get on a hill or unlevel ground, then you realize that your plow does not go down far enough. This goes back to Jeff's idea about a foot control. Even when I am going uphill... I need to be able to control how high that plow is. 

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,718]

What I learned with my hydraulic pack on my blade is... if you are planning to maintain any kind of speed while plowing... if you hit a lip in the concrete... or a curb, or something like that... that blade is not going to give at all... not even a 1/2 inch... and your tractor may... end up plowing you... 

 

Don

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

6 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

maintain any kind of speed

 

"WARNING! TRAVEL AT SLOW, SAFE SPEED!". Hain't your blade got a label says something to that effect?

 

Your blade don't have the " flippem" springs on it?

 

 

[Snoopy11 5,718]

1 minute ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

"WARNING! TRAVEL AT SLOW, SAFE SPEED!". Hain't your blade got a label says something to that effect?

 

Your blade don't have the " flippem" springs on it?

 

 

I'm illiterate...

 

 

My blade's got 1 big spring on it, but when I put my hydraulic cylinder on it... the spring certainly lost much... if not all of its function... 

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,718]

Just now, Snoopy11 said:

I'm illiterate...

 

 

My blade's got 1 big spring on it, but when I put my hydraulic cylinder on it... the spring certainly lost much... if not all of its function... 

 

Don

I should add... that is because of where I put the hydraulic cylinder... if I would have put it in a different location... my spring would have been "more" operational... but again, the downward force is so strong... it is VERY hard on the blade...

 

Don

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

16 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

downward force

 

I don't prefer the 'hard' link. Tends to really beat up your equipment.

 

I like the chain lift.  If I needed more weight on the plow I would build a frame for some weight behind the blade.

 

Gonna keep the mental engineering going, but for now I think I'll be satisfied with the sprang thang I've come up with. I'll probably find that 40 pounds of down force may not be enough, but before spending mucho bucks and time on it I want to try the "Po man's" idea first.  In fact, I'm not even going to bolt or weld the bracket on just yet. I've got some 'beam clamps' that I'll use this winter and then evaluate...

 

If I do decide to go with some sort of power lift, I can use that "S" hook arrangement I've got on there now.

 

[Snoopy11 5,718]

Just now, Jeff-C175 said:

 

I don't prefer the 'hard' link. Tends to really beat up your equipment.

 

I like the chain lift.  If I needed more weight on the plow I would build a frame for some weight behind the blade.

 

Gonna keep the mental engineering going, but for now I think I'll be satisfied with the sprang thang I've come up with. I'll probably find that 40 pounds of down force may not be enough, but before spending mucho bucks and time on it I want to try the "Po man's" idea first.  In fact, I'm not even going to bolt or weld the bracket on just yet. I've got some 'beam clamps' that I'll use this winter and then evaluate...

 

If I do decide to go with some sort of power lift, I can use that "S" hook arrangement I've got on there now.

 

Yes sir. I just think, throwing out ideas is good... it definitely gets everyone thinking! 

 

Don

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

6 hours ago, wallfish said:

What about something like this

 

Might be REALLY 'touchy'!  I don't think there will be more than 6" of travel.  One would need a REALLY SLOW winch to make that work I think?

 

 

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

6 hours ago, wallfish said:

weight attached to the rear of the plow frame?

 

Would have to be very low profile to fit under there, but the added benefit is that the weight would also give added down force to the rear wheels!

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

5 hours ago, Gregor said:

I think you could impact on this one. Not sure about lifting the plow though. It could be remotely wired I think.

 

I saw an actuator at Surplus Center for auto power seats that has a 7/16 ACME screw on it.  I thought that might work along the same lines as you're thinking.  Mount the actuator at the mule drive, 7/16 ACME bolt welded to the plow frame.  Would have to somehow waterproof the actuator because I'm certain they are not rated for having snow piled on top of them.  Although, I did one time leave my convertible top down and a freak snowstorm came in overnight...  that car luckily didn't have power seats!  

Edited December 15, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

need for variable "max" travel, I recommend getting only as long an actuator as you will use and using its full travel.

 

I haven't actually measured yet, but it appears that we may need 4 to 6 inches of travel max.  Should be easy enough to find an actuator with that amount of 'throw'.

 

 

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

2 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

I haven't actually measured yet, but it appears that we may need 4 to 6 inches of travel max.  Should be easy enough to find an actuator with that amount of 'throw'.

 

 

 

Just did some measurin'

 

Under the front tach-a-matic it's almost exactly 4" 

At the lift attachment in the center, it's almost exactly 2"

 

This gives just under 6" of lift at the blade

 

Not sure how the weight transfers though...  Bathroom scale under the blade reads 80 pounds.  I believe that as you move toward the rear, progressively more?

 

I'm thinking that it may be logarithmic?  Cuz if you go all the way to the anchor point at the rear axle, you would need infinite to raise the blade.

I don't think that say half way is twice as much as at the blade, 

I'm gonna steal the treasurer's bathroom scale again.  (hopefully I don't drop the blade on it again like I did yesterday and had to repair it!)

 

I'm seeing 10mm/S speed on these things, that's not fast enough!  I need to raise the plow at the end of each 'push' and don't wanna be waiting TEN seconds for the blade to come up!  More like TWO is what I would want.  The duty cycle is probably fine.

 

Yes, I know this one is not waterproof and I would need to take steps to see that it doesn't get water inside.

 

[Handy Don 13,969]

1 hour ago, Jeff-C175 said:

I'm thinking that it may be logarithmic?  Cuz if you go all the way to the anchor point at the rear axle, you would need infinite to raise the blade.

I don't think that say half way is twice as much as at the blade, 

 

Not logarithmic, proportional. 

weight at the "lift point" = 80 x distance from blade to rear axle ÷ distance from lift point to rear axle pivot

Example for front-ish lift: 

96 lbs = 80 lbs x 60" ÷ 50"

 

Example for mid-hitch-ish lift:

200 lbs = 80 lbs x 60" ÷ 24"

 

Obviously I'm guessing at the distances in the examples! 

 

Similarly for the height (although it's pretty easy to just block up the blade and measure it!

height at lift point = (desired height at blade ÷ distance from blade to rear axle) x distance from lift point to rear axle

Example front-ish"

5" = (6" ÷ 60") x 50"

Edited December 15, 2021 by Handy Don

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,362]

I have taken some pictures of the unit I purchased from Dave and the unit that I have on the rear of the 416-8 > Not in any order ( I hate Windows 10 ) The unit on the rear of the 416-8 is not fast but it moves as soon as you hit the switch which is located on the bottom right of the panel ( 100-6371.jpg) Switch is a on-off-on type. It will lift a rear mount blade and hold in any position. When I want the blade to be just touching the ground, I place  thin piece of wood or end sheet metal on the ground and lower blade on material. The blade is maintained at the height by actuator and does not ride up. The blade does not move whether I am pushing or pulling the blades.  Dave's unit mounts to front attach a matic . The arm is about 13 inches long and 1 1/4 inch square channel. Arm is about at a 60 degree angle. Once life gets back to free time for horse work I will mount and get my son to shoot a video .of it in action.

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,362]

I have no idea why the pictures are so d_ _ m big.

[Handy Don 13,969]

8 minutes ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

I have no idea why the pictures are so d_ _ m big.

Once you have them in your post but before you submit....double click on the picture.

In the dialog box, type in a new value for the width (I like 800 for big pictures and 400 for small ones). Check the "Keep original aspect ratio" (if it isn't already) then click "update".

You can go back and edit any of your old posts (and the pictures in them) at any time! (Revise History! )

Enjoy!

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Handy Don

[Gregor 4,847]

41 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Not logarithmic, proportional. 

weight at the "lift point" = 80 x distance from blade to rear axle ÷ distance from lift point to rear axle pivot

Example for front-ish lift: 

96 lbs = 80 lbs x 60" ÷ 50"

     

[ebinmaine 72,365]

1 hour ago, Jeff-C175 said:

I'm seeing 10mm/S speed on these things, that's not fast enough!  I need to raise the plow at the end of each 'push' and don't wanna be waiting TEN seconds for the blade to come up!  More like TWO is what I would want

I've processed the same thought about the speed being too low. 

 

1. How far are you moving the tractor before you put the plow back down? You don't need to raise the plow the entire 6" before you move. You could begin to trigger the plow upward while pulling away in reverse. 

 

2. I had thought about doubling the movement speed by using a lever..

[Gregor 4,847]

11 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

2. I had thought about doubling the movement speed by using a lever..

Double the voltage, double the speed. Usually doesn't hurt low voltage dc motors. Just a thought.

[Handy Don 13,969]

18 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

I've processed the same thought about the speed being too low. 

 

1. How far are you moving the tractor before you put the plow back down? You don't need to raise the plow the entire 6" before you move. You could begin to trigger the plow upward while pulling away in reverse. 

 

2. I had thought about doubling the movement speed by using a lever..

Yep, this is the exasperating part of modestly priced actuators. 

What are the actual distances from axle to lift point and lift point to blade?

When I looked at these I tried for short strong actuators to minimize the motion time.

[ebinmaine 72,365]

14 minutes ago, Gregor said:

Double the voltage, double the speed. Usually doesn't hurt low voltage dc motors. Just a thought.

But how do you double the voltage in a Wheelhorse?

 

[Gregor 4,847]

12 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

But how do you double the voltage in a Wheelhorse?

 

Add a batt  somewhere. I said it was just a thought, I didn't say it was a good thought.

[Handy Don 13,969]

10 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

But how do you double the voltage in a Wheelhorse?

 

No practical way I could discover at the level of current draw these things need. By the time you do a separate 24v alternator or generator (plus battery) you might as well add hydraulics.

Frequent cycling and speed are not actuators strong suits.

One wacky speedup idea I toyed with was to put two short actuators in series--that way the length would shorten twice as fast, right? But doubling the current draw would have killed the battery very quickly too!

A lever system was the best I could come up with but it was too clunky to withstand the pounding I expected it to get.

[Gregor 4,847]

Just curious. Has anyone done this? Successfully? I'm thinkin' forget the actuators, go back to the 12V winch, Just another thought, such as it is.

[wallfish 18,050]

5 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

Might be REALLY 'touchy'!  I don't think there will be more than 6" of travel.  One would need a REALLY SLOW winch to make that work I think?

 

 

1-2 seconds full motion maybe. About the same as a hydraulic cylinder. Those cheapie winches are not speed demons

 

5 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

Would have to be very low profile to fit under there, but the added benefit is that the weight would also give added down force to the rear wheels!

The weight is attached behind the tractor with added strut extending the plow frame. Not under the tractor. I should have put the axle pivot point