My 416-H is hard to steer.

[RED-Z06 2,582]

1993 model...its got the big 2 post steering wheel, everything is lubed, nothing is stuck or stiff,  its been like this since i got it in 2005...ive just accepted that the steering sucks.  Then I get this old C100 with a small steering wheel...and its like power steering in comparison.  Can anything be done?  You lift the front tires and its pinky finger easy to steer.

[daveoman1966 3,841]

Raise air pressure in front tires.  A hard tire turns easier laterally ...or...use a smaller width tires.  

 

   

[RED-Z06 2,582]

17 minutes ago, daveoman1966 said:

Raise air pressure in front tires.  A hard tire turns easier laterally ...or...use a smaller width tires.  

 

   

Already at 20psi, they are the factory rounded shoulder tires.  It feels like the ratio us too high, the steering wheel moves not alot between left lock and right lock...almost seems like snapper handle bars would be more appropriate 

[SylvanLakeWH 28,539]

Perhaps tri-rib tires?

[Maxwell-8 4,367]

29 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

Perhaps tri-rib tires?

or lose the engine 

[WheelHorse520H 708]

I have a 520 H and it has the heavy twin Onan. It takes both hands most of the time. My 607 I can drive with my pinky. I think it’s just the weight. Later 520 models were so hard to steer they had to do a gear reduction system. I think @Maxwell-8 is onto something!

Edited December 5, 2021 by WheelHorse520H

[Maxwell-8 4,367]

1 minute ago, WheelHorse520H said:

I have a 520 H and it has the heavy twin Onan. It takes both hands most of the time. My 607 I can drive with my pinky. I think it’s just the weight. Later 520 models were so hard to steer they had to do a gear reduction system. I think @Maxwell-8 is onto something!

My c141d, has a 180lbs diesel engine. 6" wide turf tires in the front, when I need to push it, you really need to jank the steering wheel. I will have to see, once I get it running if it's doable. Or I to have to look in steering reduction like @ebinmaine on Colossus.

[ebinmaine 72,940]

1 hour ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

Perhaps tri-rib tires?

Tri ribs would be the way to go if a possibility. 

 

416 and C100 should have a similar steering system as a whole. 

 

If I do gear reduction steering on Colossus it won't be a traditional Horse system. Too expensive for my tastes and I want a setup that's far more rugged and has near zero lash.  

 

[Tuneup 1,452]

So, RED, let's see if we can do anything about this.

When you jack the front end so the tires are off the ground, the steering is super smooth and easy. You're suggesting this as you said everything is lubed. Assuming also that the toe is adjusted. Locate where there is drag from weight and try a few things. I'd suggest a flat bearing at the base of the pivot point where the vertical axle meets the crossbar. I can't name the parts specifically but maybe that suffices? All the weight of the front end rests here.

 

 

They're easily installed and available through the usual sources like McMaster.

 

 

Maybe a little grinding at the cross member top is required to secure the retainer but, an option? I'm tempted to do the same. Winter in the South can be boring so tractor mods become more common.

 

[RED-Z06 2,582]

1 hour ago, Tuneup said:

So, RED, let's see if we can do anything about this.

When you jack the front end so the tires are off the ground, the steering is super smooth and easy. You're suggesting this as you said everything is lubed. Assuming also that the toe is adjusted. Locate where there is drag from weight and try a few things. I'd suggest a flat bearing at the base of the pivot point where the vertical axle meets the crossbar. I can't name the parts specifically but maybe that suffices? All the weight of the front end rests here.

 

 

They're easily installed and available through the usual sources like McMaster.

 

 

Maybe a little grinding at the cross member top is required to secure the retainer but, an option? I'm tempted to do the same. Winter in the South can be boring so tractor mods become more common.

 

Put a thrust washer under the axle?  Worth a shot...ill measure the kingpin

[pacer 3,177]

Since WH's are known to seemingly always have excessive 'toe out' I'be checking that. It dont take much to to make steering a bear. I think every tractor that I've had I added Heim joints to allow adjustment to get some 'toe IN' -- some times toe out is really bad!

 

And @Redzz02 suggestion is a good one also.........

[ebinmaine 72,940]

11 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

Put a thrust washer under the axle?  Worth a shot...ill measure the kingpin

Search "thrust washer" in the site here. 

This link might work:

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/search/?q=Thrust washer&updated_after=any&sortby=relevancy&search_and_or=and

 

 

LOTS of good info on some of those threads. 

[rmaynard 16,349]

I would jack up the front of the tractor, making sure that both tires are off the ground. Try the steering with no weight on the tires. If it is still stiff then you have something that is binding. There are lots of places where binding could occur. All areas circled in red are potential areas of concern.

 

My 416-H only steers hard when one or the other of the front tire pressures are low.

[RED-Z06 2,582]

23 minutes ago, rmaynard said:

I would jack up the front of the tractor, making sure that both tires are off the ground. Try the steering with no weight on the tires. If it is still stiff then you have something that is binding. There are lots of places where binding could occur. All areas circled in red are potential areas of concern.

 

My 416-H only steers hard when one or the other of the front tire pressures are low.

Jacked up i can give the wheel a shove from one lock and it will go around on its own to the other lock.  I think im going to drop the spindles and look for contamination, maybe polish the shafts.

[Lee1977 7,221]

5 hours ago, WheelHorse520H said:

I have a 520 H and it has the heavy twin Onan. It takes both hands most of the time. My 607 I can drive with my pinky. I think it’s just the weight. Later 520 models were so hard to steer they had to do a gear reduction system. I think @Maxwell-8 is onto something!

My 1989 520-H has the easiest steering of my three Wheel Horses and none are hard to steer. Have you checked the toe-in, I set mine at about 1/8". I have seen a lot of WH with about 1/2" or more toe-out, my 520was like that when I got it .

I made up a new set of tie rods with heims joints to fix it.

I have changed the upper bushing on my 312-8 to a 6472 bearing that bolts in place, same bearing as the lower steering shaft. 

The upper steering shaft is usually too loose and needs tighten. The best you can get it is with about 2"+or- play in the steering wheel. If any tighter fit in the steering shaft and fan gear It's going to stiffen up the steering.. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Lee1977

[rmaynard 16,349]

Post a picture of the front end, looking straight on.

[RED-Z06 2,582]

4 minutes ago, rmaynard said:

Post a picture of the front end, looking straight on.

 

[RED-Z06 2,582]

Its toed 0⁰...if I drive thru wet dirt and go down the road..it doesnt scuff the dirt off the tires for at least 5 or 600 feet.

[rmaynard 16,349]

I would toe it in so that the fronts of the tires are 1/8" toward center.

This is the way my 416-H is set and it steers fine.

BTW, I run 14 pounds in front and 10 pounds in rear.

 

[pacer 3,177]

I like to get 15-20 ft back from the front to eyeball toe so its a bit hard to get an idea from the pics, but if I had to guess then yes it seems that you have 0 toe to at least some toe out. Dial you some toe in at about what the sketch shows (I usually just 'eyeball' them till it looks right) and I bet youll at least see some difference....

[Maxwell-8 4,367]

On 12/5/2021 at 12:41 PM, WheelHorse520H said:

I think @Maxwell-8 is onto something!

I noticed a slight lift of the front when I steer. So extra weight will make steering harder.

maybe that lift has something to do with camber or so.