charger 10 carb issues

[upstateyankee50 59]

well again guys I really appreciated all of your ideas as to get this 10 horse running but to avail and did all suggestions that was told 

here is what I did today was to clean both trigger pins with a small wire drill than a emery board 'then I removed the solid state unit and cleaned all of the crap that has been stuck to it for years than attached it as was before 'I than I started the motor and check for power off that black wire that comes up though the side of the motor and it lite up, this unit is about the same as breaker less ignition system 'but anyways I was told if the key was bad it will never start but odd really as the trigger pins pass though the solid state unit it creates spark; and that I have even to the spark plug 'there is a black wire that comes up though the side of the motor and attaches to the side of the solid state unit there is power  as well as the wire that attaches to the plug with again the plug is new ; ;again I removed the cylinder head and both valves open and close they should ;I have tried gas with both choke and throttle open still it will not fire up gas is getting to the bowel 'a compression test is great plus placing my hand over the throat of the carb it sucks my hand and during gas on my hand 'so really where do I go from here as the wring is correct as well 'so tell me guys where do I go from here as it always started ;

[Gregor 4,847]

Springfield Mo. is a large city. Maybe there is another Wheel Horse member in the area that is familiar with Tecumseh engines, and likes them. ( A rare person I know) Possibly that person will step forward and offer to give you a hand with this machine.

 

If not, it's back to the mechanic, or load the thing up, and bring it to northern IL.

[ebinmaine 72,601]

I'm not sure what to recommend from here. 

You've done what I'd know to do and then some. 

Next step to me would be to remove the flywheel and verify the key is good and flywheel is timed right. 

A manual would help you with that. 

At that point it would be in your best interest to verify spark timing using a bench test like @Gregor has done on his small block Tecumseh engines in the past. 

 

I am wondering about the wire coming from the engine having power and if that's appropriate. 

 

[Gregor 4,847]

I guess I thought he had already removed and checked the key. (It's he!! to get old) If you don't have the proper tools to remove the flywheel be very careful. After you remove the nut, you can TAP from the back side, and hope it breaks loose. If it doesn't, beg, borrow, or steal the proper tools. A 4 pound hammer and crowbar ARE NOT the proper tools. I'm thinking that flywheel may be hard to replace in the vent of a catastrophe.

[ebinmaine 72,601]

1 minute ago, Gregor said:

flywheel... Replace

Crankshaft is an issue too. Unfortunately I know this from personal experience.

[ebinmaine 72,601]

I've tackled every aspect of an older Wheel Horse except the engine.

We've been lucky enough so far in our herd that no engines have needed major repair although some have had no spark or weak spark.

 

I don't remember all the ins and outs and tests that have been done on this particular engine. The way I see it is this.

If a PROPER compression test has been done with a PROPER COMPRESSION TESTER, and a spark plug test indicates usable spark with a PROPER SPARK PLUG TESTER -- UNDER COMPRESSION, then the next step to me would be to either bring it to an expert for an appropriate Professional teardown or to procure a small block Kohler such as an eight horse that would be of comparable size and power to the existing engine.

I do NOT advise bringing it back to the person who has already failed. EVER. 

 

If a replacement engine is installed perhaps set this one aside for future usage after proper research and repair has been done.

 

 

There are two reasons the older Tecumseh engines are disliked. One is carburation and one is spark. It's becoming common knowledge because of the internet that both of these issues can be readily fixed but in this particular case we are not positive which one -- or even IF EITHER one--, is the actual issue with this particular power plant.

 

I have a greater than average appreciation of trying to use what I have on hand and trying to restore and maintain older engines and equipment. 

There is however, a line that needs to be drawn.

 

If your skill set is perfectly fine with replacing an entire engine as a unit there's nothing the least bit wrong with finding something else to use for the time being.

 

 

[upstateyankee50 59]

On 9/20/2021 at 1:51 AM, Gregor said:

Springfield Mo. is a large city. Maybe there is another Wheel Horse member in the area that is familiar with Tecumseh engines, and likes them. ( A rare person I know) Possibly that person will step forward and offer to give you a hand with this machine.

 

If not, it's back to the mechanic, or load the thing up, and bring it to northern IL.

yes you are correct as it is a big city but not to many small engine repair shops as most are closed due the virus ;though there are 2 that are open ;the first is the one that let mine sit for a week and moved on to other customers repairs ; and I will never go back to that one; the other wants 85 an hour and we all know that they will suck it dry ;so it seems back to square one and the last resort is to pull the fly wheel ;now if you weren't so far away I sure would load it on and head that way ;

[upstateyankee50 59]

On 9/20/2021 at 3:53 AM, ebinmaine said:

I'm not sure what to recommend from here. 

You've done what I'd know to do and then some. 

Next step to me would be to remove the flywheel and verify the key is good and flywheel is timed right. 

A manual would help you with that. 

At that point it would be in your best interest to verify spark timing using a bench test like @Gregor has done on his small block Tecumseh engines in the past. 

 

I am wondering about the wire coming from the engine having power and if that's appropriate. 

 

again thanks and it seems the only thing left to try is to remove the fly wheel and check the key way ;though the timing part I really don't understand as I have never done that before ;the strange thing is for the years that I have had it ;it always started till a few weeks back and with all of the suggestions that was given I did them all ;that wire I have not searched it yet to see where it goes but with a test light and turning the motor over it lights up so it is hot which is part of the power to the solid state ignition system

[upstateyankee50 59]

On 9/20/2021 at 4:58 AM, ebinmaine said:

I've tackled every aspect of an older Wheel Horse except the engine.

We've been lucky enough so far in our herd that no engines have needed major repair although some have had no spark or weak spark.

 

I don't remember all the ins and outs and tests that have been done on this particular engine. The way I see it is this.

If a PROPER compression test has been done with a PROPER COMPRESSION TESTER, and a spark plug test indicates usable spark with a PROPER SPARK PLUG TESTER -- UNDER COMPRESSION, then the next step to me would be to either bring it to an expert for an appropriate Professional teardown or to procure a small block Kohler such as an eight horse that would be of comparable size and power to the existing engine.

I do NOT advise bringing it back to the person who has already failed. EVER. 

 

If a replacement engine is installed perhaps set this one aside for future usage after proper research and repair has been done.

 

 

There are two reasons the older Tecumseh engines are disliked. One is carburation and one is spark. It's becoming common knowledge because of the internet that both of these issues can be readily fixed but in this particular case we are not positive which one -- or even IF EITHER one--, is the actual issue with this particular power plant.

 

I have a greater than average appreciation of trying to use what I have on hand and trying to restore and maintain older engines and equipment. 

There is however, a line that needs to be drawn.

 

If your skill set is perfectly fine with replacing an entire engine as a unit there's nothing the least bit wrong with finding something else to use for the time being.

 

 

I have  3 other horses to use so having this down for some thing really doesn't matter but I am bull headed and am very fussy as to taking care of all 4 of them 'yes the thought of another motor has been talked about but again being bull headed I would like to see this one run 'again the compression is up there as it will suck the thumb inside and as far as spark there is plenty of that using a spark plug tester ;then next test was to hold my hand over the throat of the carb and crank the motor over the pressure will suck the hand in so those 3 tests have been done ;so again removing the fly wheel and check the key way ' and yes I will never take it back to that one shop as he can suck wind 

[upstateyankee50 59]

On 9/20/2021 at 4:36 AM, Gregor said:

I guess I thought he had already removed and checked the key. (It's he!! to get old) If you don't have the proper tools to remove the flywheel be very careful. After you remove the nut, you can TAP from the back side, and hope it breaks loose. If it doesn't, beg, borrow, or steal the proper tools. A 4 pound hammer and crowbar ARE NOT the proper tools. I'm thinking that flywheel may be hard to replace in the vent of a catastrophe.

no I have not removed the fly wheel as of yet as I  hoping for a miracle so I really don't have to but I am sure that will never happen and yes using the correct tools are always helpful and not a hammer and a crow bar ;I am going to walk away for a few days as this issue has me pulling my hair out and really I don't have much of that left ;not quite the cue ball look but close hehehe ;earlier this summer I did remove a fly wheel from a 12 horse and it came off quite easy so just maybe this one will pop off as well ;

[upstateyankee50 59]

On 9/20/2021 at 3:53 AM, ebinmaine said:

I'm not sure what to recommend from here. 

You've done what I'd know to do and then some. 

Next step to me would be to remove the flywheel and verify the key is good and flywheel is timed right. 

A manual would help you with that. 

At that point it would be in your best interest to verify spark timing using a bench test like @Gregor has done on his small block Tecumseh engines in the past. 

 

I am wondering about the wire coming from the engine having power and if that's appropriate. 

 

you questioned the small black wire that attaches to the unit ;my daughter snapped a few pictures of it today and at the left top you can see that wire that is attached ;my thoughts are it is a hot wire that sends power to the unit and using a test light and spinning the motor over lights up 'now if there is an adjustment on the unit as when the pins rotate and hit that might be the problem as well 'as with a 12 horse I had before with the breaker-less ignition system there was a way to adjust the pins as they rotated around and hit ; thought this one might be different ;

[ebinmaine 72,601]

Manual may explain if or how to adjust gaps. 

[Gregor 4,847]

Once you have that nut off the flywheel, you may be able to see if the key way in the crank, at least lines up with the key way in the flywheel. You will still have to remove the flywheel to be sure the key isn't partially sheared.

 

 I don't think there is any adjustment to the pins per se. All you can adjust is the gap between the pins and the ignition module, which is what sets the timing, but don't quote me on any of this.

[lynnmor 7,813]

Till you get around to removing the flywheel, at least apply penetrating oil to the nut.

[upstateyankee50 59]

12 hours ago, Gregor said:

Once you have that nut off the flywheel, you may be able to see if the key way in the crank, at least lines up with the key way in the flywheel. You will still have to remove the flywheel to be sure the key isn't partially sheared.

 

 I don't think there is any adjustment to the pins per se. All you can adjust is the gap between the pins and the ignition module, which is what sets the timing, but don't quote me on any of this.

again thanks ;removing the fly wheel is my next step once I get more time as always busy with other things that need to be fixed 'hopefully tomorrow and I will let you know what I find 

[upstateyankee50 59]

4 hours ago, lynnmor said:

Till you get around to removing the flywheel, at least apply penetrating oil to the nut.

yep have done that and waiting for the oil to soak in ;thanks a bunch

[upstateyankee50 59]

19 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Manual may explain if or how to adjust gaps. 

thanks and once I get the time to check it out so many things going on 

 

On 9/20/2021 at 4:39 AM, ebinmaine said:

Crankshaft is an issue too. Unfortunately I know this from personal experience.

I sure hope that isn't the issue