Gas Tank Repair

[Walleye Guy 22]

Hello, 

 

My dad and I are working on a 753 that my great grandpa bought new in 1963.  It's been sitting for a while but seems to be complete.  The gas tank has broken mounts on each side where the hood mounts.  I've read a little bit about this problem but I'm wondering if someone out there can reply back and post a picture or two of what the tank is supposed to look like when it's not broken.  A few questions I have:  Is this a fairly common problem?  Are there just two nuts welded in place or are they captured but float in a slot?  Also, what have some of you done for repairs?  Maybe there is a better way to fix this rather than reestablish the original design.  I have access to a machine shop and excellent welders so there isn't much we can't accomplish.  Thanks in advance!

[WHX?? 50,793]

  Walleye....

I'm thinkin if you have AL welders under your belt you may be able to just build it back up or weld broken pieces back on and machine to fit. If I am not mistaken they are just threaded holes into castings in the tank. Do you have the two or the one piece tank? I know @pullstart repaired a tank once?? Guessing this hole you mean? 

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by WHX24

[stevasaurus 23,090]

I used helicoils on my 702..  I've taken the thumb screws out and put them back in with no issues a bunch of times.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=helicoils&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS865US865&oq=helo+coils&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0i10i433j0i10i457j0i10l7.6473j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[Pullstart 64,714]

 Neighbor!  The aluminum is pretty trashy to weld, but it’s doable.  You might be better off filling the area with PC-7 or a similar metal epoxy (Pigg Puddy in die shops) then drill and tap it.  The issue is that quite often a longer than stock bolt is used to fasten a hood and the bolt bottoms out in the cavity and snaps the little strap off the tank.

[Pullstart 64,714]

Here’s a link to show how bad these tanks weld... 

 

 

[Walleye Guy 22]

WHX24, thank-you for the welcome and yes those are the holes and ours is a two-piece tank.  That area is currently a void on our tank, like the bottom part broke and the rest fell out, but you can see a witness mark on the inside where the fastener (sounds like it was a thumbscrew?) bottomed against the tank.  Yes, I could easily fab up a piece of aluminum flat stock with a tapped hole and have it welded into place (or simply have an aluminum nut welded into place).

 

stevasauraus, that area on our tank is just a void so there is nothing to install the helicoil into.  

 

Is this a design that is prone to breaking again?  ie should I look into a different solution?  If it's a good design that just wore out over time, then we can simply get it fixed and probably won't ever have trouble with it again.

 

 

[Walleye Guy 22]

pullstart, thanks for the welcome and I'm not too far from you!

[Walleye Guy 22]

Attached is a picture that I copied from this link.

 

This is how our tank looks now on both sides...just an empty cavity...and I don't know what it looked like before it broke.

 

[WHX?? 50,793]

18 minutes ago, pullstart said:

The aluminum is pretty trashy to weld,

Yeah I forgot the AL used in these is not the purest. 

Some pics Walleye? You might be better off searching for a one piecer. They are still out there. The two piece tanks were not the best invention and a step backwards  from the one's in the 701/702s. 

edit:

Ahh I see it now... yup someone bottomed out the fastener. 

I wouldn't be against doing the fix you suggested ... nothing to lose. As long as you don't have to open the tank up. Might be a can of worms there. 
keep a little gas in the tank to keep that gasket from drying out. 

Edited May 17, 2021 by WHX24

[Pullstart 64,714]

I’d say unless you find another tank (one piece), your best bet is to fill it with PC-7 and tap it.  Some people have mentioned before to use that type of epoxy and embed a 1/2-20 nut in the hole to use as a tapped hole... but I think a bottoming tap would work slick.  These only need to be hand tight at the end of the day.

[WHX?? 50,793]

1 minute ago, pullstart said:

1/2-20 nut

1/2 -20 Kev???...go big or go home??? 

[stevasaurus 23,090]

These are the thumb screws that came with the horse.  Notice 2 short (like 1/2") and the long one goes down on the front of the hood (3/4")

https://www.google.com/search?q=helicoils&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS865US865&oq=helo+coils&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0i10i433j0i10i457j0i10l7.6473j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[ranger 1,783]

Welcome to RedSquare!

You could try one of the “Aluminium”  low temperature repair kits. You can use a propane or similar type of torch, no need for oxy - acetylene. Use some fire cement to build up a “Mould” around the area, pre heat the area, then build up the shape with the special rods.

google “Technoweld”, or something I think it was called. I repaired an inlet manifold on a genset engine that had a broken flange using this method

 

Doug.

[oliver2-44 10,384]

It's great that your fixing that horse and keeping it in the family.  What a way to remember your great grandpa.  

 

You might check with A-Z  Tractor for a used one piece tank.  Give him a call, he's a great resourrse but sometimes isn't the fastest to respond to emails.  Also, post a wanted ad in the classified section here.  He listed in the vendor section here.

Once it's repaired get a cart and take the kids on rides through the neighborhood while telling them about great grandpa!

[Pullstart 64,714]

13 minutes ago, WHX24 said:

1/2 -20 Kev???...go big or go home??? 

 I said 1/4-20 in my head, that’s gotta count for sumpin’

[stevasaurus 23,090]

You probably meant 1/2" x 1/4" x 20.  Trying to beat Jim to the post will do that.  

[WHX?? 50,793]

36 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said:

for a used one piece tank.

Just saw one somewhere CRS where tho... here or fleabay maybe??? 

 

39 minutes ago, ranger said:

“Aluminium”  low temperature repair kits. 

Another good idea Doug... I used this stuff for that kind of work. It's flux cored and works slicker than snot on a door knob... 

 

AL822 (lucasmilhaupt.com)

28 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

beat Jim to the post will do that

He's gotta get up way early in the morning to do that Dino! 

Edited May 17, 2021 by WHX24

[stevasaurus 23,090]

BTW...Walleye guy...Welcome to Red Square  

Don't you guys have jobs???  I'm thinking I should have the site to myself.  

[Pullstart 64,714]

4 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

Don't you guys have jobs??? 

I’m watching paint dry!  

[Walleye Guy 22]

You guys are great and I really appreciate all the info.  

 

WHX24, I don't have any pictures of the tank just yet but I attached two pictures of the tractor itself.  The tractor is at my parents house which is two hours away.  My dad doesn't go online so I told him I'd find a good forum and post the question.  Based on the number of responses so far, this is a fantastic group of guys.

 

Does anyone have a picture of an original tank so I can see what this particular area is supposed to look like?

 

I'm not familiar with a one-piece replacement tank.  Is it a direct replacement with the same capacity?  Was it available on a 753 or on some later models?

 

Those aluminum low-temp repair kits sound interesting, but it's probably just as easy for me to have it welded.  

[stevasaurus 23,090]

Check out these pictures from the gallery...use the 1961, 1962 &1963 pictures to see what you think.

 

Some pictures are missing because of what Photobucket did to sites like us, but there is enough to look at to give you what you want to know.

[WHX?? 50,793]

43 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

Don't you guys have jobs???

I'm jockeying a desk... 

 

36 minutes ago, Walleye Guy said:

fantastic group of guys.

It is & thank you sir we try... 

2018 Group Photo; please identify yourself. - 2018 WHCC Show Pictures - RedSquare Wheel Horse Forum

 

61 & 62 models had a one piece tank that was great. They had a boss cast into the inside for the thumb screw so helicoil worked fine last a long time. Some early '63s  had the one piece tanks as they were using them up. My 753 has a one piece tank. the tanks were all two piece in mid 63 & 64. They went to a whole different mouse trap in 65. The two piece ones were ok but the screws that hold the bottom on often "set" in to the tank since they weren't AL  so removing them for a leaky gasket were often a pain. Especially for us clowns that resto them.  Dissimilar metals and all that good stuff. 

Grampa's looks like a nice survivor. 

Edited May 17, 2021 by WHX24

[SylvanLakeWH 27,632]

 

Good to see another Michigander…!

 

Looks like you got more than enough advice… 

[Walleye Guy 22]

Thank-you all for the information posted above. 

 

I'll look into a one piece tank and will most likely be posting other questions as we dig more into this neat old tractor.

[seuadr 489]

 nothing to add here - for an area that large i think PC-7 will work great! i tried JB weld's "Steel Stik" for some filling on a project i'm working on and it is easier to form and use than PC-7, but it sets up FAST and you got a fair amount of area to cover.