big 8 speed broken reduction gear?

[Greentored 3,196]

Before going any further, yep, this was out of the big daddy 1 1/8 axle, 8 pinion 8 speed in the off road B100. In our defense, the majority of us (myself included) are low speed crawling, stopping to change gears, and not bashing on the shifters with the throttle on the pin  I was crawling some big flat rocks in a creek bed in low 2nd and high idle, started slipping, stopped to back up and nothing. Got roped out by another Horse! So far, not one Wheel Horse addict has seen this gear break, even the pullers and the few off roaders who are putting 25+ horsepower through them and beating them to death. Im running a bone stock K321 on mine.

Have you guys ever seen this? Perhaps previous abuse? It did have a hard past life- the guy I got it from used it to pull loads often, including yanking a truck out of the mud where he jerked the chain so hard he broke one of the ears off the trans case- the one that holds the hitch pin!

Im not super well versed on these transaxles yet, but it appears this 'reduction gear' is only in use in low range, and when it is, it basically 'splits' the input shaft to reduce the speed, correct? In other words, these things may be about bomb proof but not in low range?

Thanks in advance.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Greentored

[squonk 38,844]

I bet snapping that ear off had a lot todo with that gear failing.

[WHX?? 46,693]

Yep been there done that Green. 1067 that was still somewhat a trailer queen after I restoed her. Parked it at a show and it sat there till loading time. Wouldn't go into and gear but still rolled. We have no idea what might have caused it. I had just gone thru the whole tranny too. Replaced the gear and all is good. That was four years ago already now. I suspect that maybe it got caught between high and low gears somehow???

Edited May 10, 2021 by WHX24

[Greentored 3,196]

58 minutes ago, WHX24 said:

Yep been there done that Green. 1067 that was still somewhat a trailer queen after I restoed her. Parked it at a show and it sat there till loading time. Wouldn't go into and gear but still rolled. We have no idea what might have caused it. I had just gone thru the whole tranny too. Replaced the gear and all is good. That was four years ago already now. I suspect that maybe it got caught between high and low gears somehow???

Whoa- the same exact type of break too!

Im gonna take a look when putting it back together and see if theres any way it could indeed 'hang' between high and low- that would certainly bust this little guys pretty easily.

Now im anxious to see if anyone else replies with the same issue.

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

That sucks, is she still usable in HI?

The gear is on the end of a "thin" wall hollow pipe.  Low range is so low, it has so much torque. clearly a "weak" point.

[Greentored 3,196]

3 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said:

That sucks, is she still usable in HI?

The gear is on the end of a "thin" wall hollow pipe.  Low range is so low, it has so much torque. clearly a "weak" point.

Actually, yes I think I couldve drove it out in high gear, but the pieces fell straight down and jammed the hi/low shift fork and I couldnt get it out of low.

This is exactly the kind of stuff i'd like to share ideas about here- the gear reduction in these Horse trannys is deep, and ridiculously deep in low range, so the 'end of the line' has a HUGE load on it, hence the giant 11/44 and bull gear.  However, at the beginning of the line as in this gear, there is a lot of rpm but not much load- at least no more than engine torque multiplied by pulley ratio, which means in the case of speeding up the pulleys, there would be even less torque on this gear than stock.

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

4 minutes ago, Greentored said:

However, at the beginning of the line as in this gear, there is a lot of rpm but not much load- at least no more than engine torque multiplied by pulley ratio, which means in the case of speeding up the pulleys, there would be even less torque on this gear than stock.

hihi, maybe pulley swapping my  to a 1:1 ratio ain't that bad overall. 

 

Yanking that truck out the mud:

Yanking is always bad,   under constant load, the metal can give, but with a yank that metal can't give and can start cracking. 

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Maxwell-8

[stevasaurus 22,229]

I have not seen that gear break in any of the 8 speed transmissions of guys that I have helped.  

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

28 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

I have not seen that gear break in any of the 8 speed transmissions of guys that I have helped.  

What is then the weakest point on a 8Speed?

[WHX?? 46,693]

Good job explaining the power transmission Green i woulda botched that all up.

[Greentored 3,196]

6 minutes ago, WHX24 said:

Good job explaining the power transmission Green i woulda botched that all up.

I'm just guessing but it makes sense from what it appears to do haha.  Lotta gears going on in these things!

[Greentored 3,196]

9 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said:

What is then the weakest point on a 8Speed?

An operator with no common sense?  

[ebinmaine 62,961]

3 hours ago, squonk said:

I bet snapping that ear off had a lot todo with that gear failing.

That was my first thought as well. 

 

No telling whether or not that particular gear was in use at that particular time unless you know for sure what the PO was up to. 

 

If a "previous abuser" had the wherewithal to bust the ear off the back there's any number of other things they'd do. 

 

[stevasaurus 22,229]

The weakest link in an 8 speed...is the hi / low shift fork.  

[WHX?? 46,693]

1 hour ago, Greentored said:

An operator with no common sense?  

Speaking from experience here are we Green? 

 

51 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

The weakest link in an 8 speed...is the hi / low shift fork.  

Agreed Dino...

[Greentored 3,196]

Believe it or not the shift fork is perfect.... so I didn’t mess with it haha. 
Robbed the gear out of an old 8 speed parts trans I had in the archives, and she’s all back together and working great! I even lined it up for a quick photo shoot with Hoss and Lawn Duty. 
 

[ebinmaine 62,961]

Got to get you a proper transmission holderer. Like a milk crate. Or a hole in the work bench. 

 

 

Nice pic!!

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

9 hours ago, Greentored said:

Believe it or not the shift fork is perfect.... so I didn’t mess with it haha. 
Robbed the gear out of an old 8 speed parts trans I had in the archives, and she’s all back together and working great! I even lined it up for a quick photo shoot with Hoss and Lawn Duty. 

nicely done! 

2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Got to get you a proper transmission holderer. Like a milk crate. Or a hole in the work bench. 

I use a bench like this i can clamp down the tranny

[Greentored 3,196]

2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Got to get you a proper transmission holderer. Like a milk crate. Or a hole in the work bench. 

 

 

Nice pic!!

Agreed!  Leaving it on one wheel works great as long as the diff doesnt have to come out

What I really need is to build a big ol honkin hub puller! Ive stripped TWO heavy duty pullers already. Definitely my least favorite thing about WHs....aside from steering wheels haha.

[ebinmaine 62,961]

10 minutes ago, Greentored said:

Agreed!  Leaving it on one wheel works great as long as the diff doesnt have to come out

What I really need is to build a big ol honkin hub puller! Ive stripped TWO heavy duty pullers already. Definitely my least favorite thing about WHs....aside from steering wheels haha.

 

I use an old worn out hub combined with the center stud and jaw holder of a three-jaw puller as the pulling device.

 

Scroll down through this thread and you'll see several great ideas for hub pulling devices:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

9 hours ago, Greentored said:

You run a smaller pulley, or wHat is that pulley on the ground? 

2 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Scroll down through this thread and you'll see several great ideas for hub pulling devices:

Maybe we should start a "show off your hub-puller" topic

[Greentored 3,196]

4 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

I use an old worn out hub combined with the center stud and jaw holder of a three-jaw puller as the pulling device.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats exactly what I did, and took the threads right out of the drive screw in the puller. I really dig @meadowfield bottle jack setup!

[ebinmaine 62,961]

3 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said:

You run a smaller pulley, or wHat is that pulley on the ground? 

Maybe we should start a "show off your hub-puller" topic

 

You'll notice in one of my posts I put a bunch of search words in there. I type in

 

Best hub puller

 

And scroll down until I find the thread I want. 

[Greentored 3,196]

8 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said:

You run a smaller pulley, or wHat is that pulley on the ground? 

Maybe we should start a "show off your hub-puller" topic

I like that idea!

Yes- thats a 5" pulley I run on the trans, and an 8" on the engine. It runs 18mph with 26" tall tires and governed at 3500

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

15 minutes ago, Greentored said:

I like that idea!

Yes- thats a 5" pulley I run on the trans, and an 8" on the engine. It runs 18mph with 26" tall tires and governed at 3500

That's about 4x the original speed haha!  Makes Low range may more usable.

Should the speed be causing any problems to the tranny?