L-157 2 stroker question

[Snoopy11 5,718]

80 cc 2 stroke engine to power L-157...

 

Will it work...?

[Snoopy11 5,718]

3 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

I don't know if there's really a known or stated RPM limit.

 

These particular transmissions were designed 50 or 60 years ago and put together in a nearly bulletproof manner for the purposes which they were built to serve. They've done a great job doing so over the years.

 

If a  Wheel Horse is doing six or seven miles per hour and you double or even triple that speed you're putting massive amounts of wear and tear and HEAT at a high rate of speed into a piece of machinery that was designed for lower RPM work.  

Will it work? Probably... How long will it last? Well there I don't really know....

[Snoopy11 5,718]

Just now, Snoopy11 said:

4 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

I don't know if there's really a known or stated RPM limit.

 

These particular transmissions were designed 50 or 60 years ago and put together in a nearly bulletproof manner for the purposes which they were built to serve. They've done a great job doing so over the years.

 

If a  Wheel Horse is doing six or seven miles per hour and you double or even triple that speed you're putting massive amounts of wear and tear and HEAT at a high rate of speed into a piece of machinery that was designed for lower RPM work.  

Will it work? Probably... How long will it last? Well there I don't really know....

This is very insightful. Makes me wary of pushing thousands of rpms through my tranny...

 

Don

[Maxwell-8 4,367]

Trannys speed, would be a big problem i think, everything is on bearings. And the speed of the input on the tranny, would be dependable to the pulley on 80cc engine.

 

Don't see a big problem making the tranny spin 2x as fast. Have seen people do it without problems. What could go wrong when they spin faster?

 

And if you figure out a way to meet the tranny to the engine. I think she could do it. but at only 3 HP, you not gone win anything. If ot would be 8hp, like a Stihl MS880. You whould have a shot in drag racing, as you can not shift a WH tranny on the move. and have a longer powerband with a 2 stroke. 

[ebinmaine 72,637]

1 hour ago, Maxwell-8 said:

you can not shift a WH tranny on the move

YOU CAN NOT SHIFT A WHEELHORSE TRANSMISSION ON THE MOVE

 

That particular point bears repeating.  

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Maxwell-8 said:

longer powerband

So here's a question.  What is the usable powerband of a small 2 stroke??

 

 

[Maxwell-8 4,367]

4 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

YOU CAN NOT SHIFT A WHEELHORSE TRANSMISSION ON THE MOVE

 

That particular point bears repeating.  

 

So here's a question.  What is the usable powerband of a small 2 stroke??

 

 

Correct! i know somebody shifting from 2-3 on the move, i always get the cold shivers.

 

they rev from 1200 to in some cases 14500, but good torque would only start to come in at around 5-6k.

[Snoopy11 5,718]

6 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

YOU CAN NOT SHIFT A WHEELHORSE TRANSMISSION ON THE MOVE

 

That particular point bears repeating.  

 

 

 

So here's a question.  What is the usable powerband of a small 2 stroke??

 

 

Yeah, that is one thing I figured out that kinda saddens me. I guess no shifting on the move because it doesn't have synchronizers.

 

I think... the key to high rpms is going to be an oil pump of some sort. I know that ARC racing (a guy there named Hunter), told me that all of these 4 stroke splash lubricated engines are begging for an oil pump. I sure wish I was smarter, as I would design one... maybe electric...

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,718]

I think by the time I get a really powerful 2 stroke motor... I will be broke...

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,718]

6 hours ago, Maxwell-8 said:

Correct! i know somebody shifting from 2-3 on the move, i always get the cold shivers.

 

they rev from 1200 to in some cases 14500, but good torque would only start to come in at around 5-6k.

Yeah... and 5-6K is going pretty fast on the L-157... I can tell that from my Tillotson racing engines...

 

I did play around with the 80cc 2 stroke today. I have a tachometer... top rpm on third pull was 9,500. That is with me saving some throttle. I could pass 10,000 if I let it go. Problem is, when I put the engine under load, it takes too long to get to top rpm, and the top rpm drops. I fabricated up a pulley for me to get the belt on the tractor. Just sitting in neutral, and letting the clutch go to engage the transmission puts strain on the motor. I did not try a full-pull on the tractor because of this. I don't even really want to put it in first... as I don't know what will happen.

 

SO... I put my Tillotson monster back on...

 

I can... get to over 7,000 rpm on my 212 r... in third. I am in the process of putting internals back in my hemi Tillotson... with billet goodies. We will see what comes out of that...

 

Has anybody ever run a diesel engine on one of these Wheel horses (L-157... specifically)?

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,718]

1 minute ago, Snoopy11 said:

Yeah... and 5-6K is going pretty fast on the L-157... I can tell that from my Tillotson racing engines...

 

I did play around with the 80cc 2 stroke today. I have a tachometer... top rpm on third pull was 9,500. That is with me saving some throttle. I could pass 10,000 if I let it go. Problem is, when I put the engine under load, it takes too long to get to top rpm, and the top rpm drops. I fabricated up a pulley for me to get the belt on the tractor. Just sitting in neutral, and letting the clutch go to engage the transmission puts strain on the motor. I did not try a full-pull on the tractor because of this. I don't even really want to put it in first... as I don't know what will happen.

 

SO... I put my Tillotson monster back on...

 

I can... get to over 7,000 rpm on my 212 r... in third. I am in the process of putting internals back in my hemi Tillotson... with billet goodies. We will see what comes out of that...

 

Has anybody ever run a diesel engine on one of these Wheel horses (L-157... specifically)?

 

Don

This... might be the dumbest question I have ever asked in my life... but I have heard of people converting their 4 stroke engines to 2 stroke.

 

Anybody heard of this?

 

Don

[Maxwell-8 4,367]

4 hours ago, Snoopy11 said:

This... might be the dumbest question I have ever asked in my life... but I have heard of people converting their 4 stroke engines to 2 stroke.

 

Anybody heard of this?

 

Don

I think a buid tilitson is a better option then a 2 stroke.

converting a 4 stroke in to a 2 stroke, it's  impossible, you need a different head (simple) but you need a special piston, transfer ports in the cilinder wall. 

 

 

IN a 2 stroke the air/fuel mixture first enters the crankcase, lube everything, the thru the transfer ports in to the combustion chamber. That's why you often see an a 2 stroke, the carb hanging pretty low.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Maxwell-8

[littleredrider 409]

Shifting with a ranger or any other tractor isn't impossible, its just tough. If you have a single clutch/brake lever, push too hard and you engage the brake. Not enough they grind. I shift my 520-8 all the time. Only time it grinds if my coordination is off.

 

There was a member who put a small diesel on a ranger. I wanted to for a long time, but could never find a small engine. I have a 10 horse single on a 520H now, it's a torque monster, it will outpull a stock 520 easily.  

[ebinmaine 72,637]

7 hours ago, Snoopy11 said:

diesel engine on one of these Wheel horses (L-157... specifically

Several members have diesel conversions but they're all on the bigger tractors. I haven't seen any converted lawn rangers.

[MikMacMike 490]

4 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Several members have diesel conversions but they're all on the bigger tractors. I haven't seen any converted lawn rangers.

I did see this very small, I think it was a yanmar deseil....dang I forget, but what I liked was it was a 2 cyl, knowing how desils shake I thought id get big tork but a smoother running engine???? Its just finding the time to do all these modifications, I seem to have so little time compared to when I was younger, probably just in my brain mind you, but it sure seems that way heheheheh.

[Snoopy11 5,718]

1 hour ago, MikMacMike said:

I did see this very small, I think it was a yanmar deseil....dang I forget, but what I liked was it was a 2 cyl, knowing how desils shake I thought id get big tork but a smoother running engine???? Its just finding the time to do all these modifications, I seem to have so little time compared to when I was younger, probably just in my brain mind you, but it sure seems that way heheheheh.

Yeah, I mean, I can buy a diesel engine outright... I just dunno if it would be better than my Tillotsons...

 

Probably not... but I just wonder if someone else has made this comparison...? Gas or diesel...

 

Don

[Maxwell-8 4,367]

from 2stroke gas to 4stroke diesels the complete spectrum of combustion engines. Diesels have great torque, and will pull a wheelie longer then a gas engine! 

 

6 hours ago, littleredrider said:

520-8 all the time.

You need to have some great rev-match skills!

 

China made some 3hp and 5 hp Yanmar clone diesel engines made out of chinesium 

 

I've had a real Yanmar 10hp, just no horse to put it on. equally heavy as a kohler k301. And boy it had some torque! It had an engine stand, and the engine would still want to flip when you gave it some throttle or shutting it of.  

( and a quick tip, the difference between a fake and real Yanmar is very clear!)

Edited May 5, 2021 by Maxwell-8

[littleredrider 409]

It’s easy actually, it as a separate clutch n brake lol. But going down a hill idling I can they then all without a hiccup....

 

the diesel is the 520H, and by accident I wheelied it, scared me cause it did it so easy...

[Snoopy11 5,718]

8 hours ago, Maxwell-8 said:

from 2stroke gas to 4stroke diesels the complete spectrum of combustion engines. Diesels have great torque, and will pull a wheelie longer then a gas engine! 

 

You need to have some great rev-match skills!

 

China made some 3hp and 5 hp Yanmar clone diesel engines made out of chinesium 

 

I've had a real Yanmar 10hp, just no horse to put it on. equally heavy as a kohler k301. And boy it had some torque! It had an engine stand, and the engine would still want to flip when you gave it some throttle or shutting it of.  

( and a quick tip, the difference between a fake and real Yanmar is very clear!)

Do... you still have that Yanmar 10...?

 

Don

[Maxwell-8 4,367]

5 hours ago, Snoopy11 said:

Do... you still have that Yanmar 10...?

 

Don

No, but can get to it quick. So if you need an info, i can give it to you. 

  A used one is worth around 800$ here. 

 

[ranger 1,798]

“Horse Power sells Cars, Torque Wins Races”. 

Enzo Ferrari.

How about trying a rotary engine, those things seem to rev forever. For short runs, you could possibly dispense with the cooling system. I remember people who drag raced Ford V6 engines in the 60s and 70s, filling the water jackets with polyester resin to stiffen the blocks! 

Doug.

[Snoopy11 5,718]

9 hours ago, Maxwell-8 said:

No, but can get to it quick. So if you need an info, i can give it to you. 

  A used one is worth around 800$ here. 

 

Darn, and I thought my almost 500$ Tillotson engines were pricey...

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,718]

I have one more question to add to this discussion if I may. So... I have been talking to ARC Racing some more, and they tell me that my 4 stroke Tillitson engines are begging for an oil pump. SO... a thought came to my mind. Why not install an alternator on the L-157... buy an electric scavenging oil pump, install one oil line at the engine's drain, and the other directly above where the rod journal passes (obviously drilling and tapping the block). Oh, and also plumbing in an oil filter!

 

I wonder how this would work?

 

Don

Edited May 6, 2021 by Snoopy11
forgot one detail

[Maxwell-8 4,367]

20 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

Darn, and I thought my almost 500$ Tillotson engines were pricey...

 

Don

a Real Yanmar L100 (10hp) is around 2200$ here.