414-8 K321 - No spark

[TC10284 109]

I have a 414-8 with K321. I get no spark out of it. I have put on a new ignition coil but no luck. I also checked the points and they looked ok as far as I could tell. I used a nail file to clean them just in case. I put in a new spark plug. I'm testing spark with an inline spark tester, as well as looking for spark on the plug. It turns over fine, just cannot get any spark. 

[peter lena 8,040]

TC10284, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME IT RAN?  any corrosion on your connections ? engine block grounded to battery negative ground rail ,along side battery ?  have any small gauge jumper wires ?  have a spare ignition switch ? safety switches ok?  just some of the things I would check out , fuses corroded ?  if it cranks , you are close , pete

[TC10284 109]

1 minute ago, peter lena said:

TC10284, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME IT RAN?  any corrosion on your connections ? engine block grounded to battery negative ground rail ,along side battery ?  have any small gauge jumper wires ?  have a spare ignition switch ? safety switches ok?  just some of the things I would check out , fuses corroded ?  if it cranks , you are close , pete

I'm not sure when it last ran. I picked it up from a seller a few months ago and just now getting around to trying it out. 

I do not see any major corrosion anywhere. Negative is grounded to chassis on right side of battery. 

Fuses looked OK. I wouldn't think it would be safety switches since it's turning over fine. Just no spark. 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,488]

Have a test light or voltmeter?

The (+) coil terminal needs constant battery voltage in START and RUN

The (-) coil terminal will have battery voltage when the ignition points are open. When the points are closed there should be 0 volts. So as the engine cranks the voltage will be on and off once for every 2 rotations of the crankshaft.

If that is not happening the points are not opening, not closing or are not making electrical contact when they are closed. Clean the points again.

 

The condenser should be connected to the coil (-) terminal.

Let us know what you find.

 

Garry

[peter lena 8,040]

typically , when they sit for long periods of time , its a fuel issue , but your no spark calls for a thorough look over your entire wire harness set up . I have used small jumper wires to pick up juice. pete

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,488]

 

[squonk 38,862]

PTO and seat switch can knock out spark. First thing to do is check for 12volts at the coil positive. If you have it then at the coil negative you Must have 12 volts on and off as the engine is spinning. 

[TC10284 109]

36 minutes ago, squonk said:

 

 

36 minutes ago, squonk said:

PTO and seat switch can knock out spark. First thing to do is check for 12volts at the coil positive. If you have it then at the coil negative you Must have 12 volts on and off as the engine is spinning. 

 

Not saying it's not possible, but everytime I've had a pto or seat switch issue on my WH tractors, the engine wouldn't turn over at all. 

But I will check on this. 

Thanks 

Edited April 13, 2021 by TC10284

[squonk 38,862]

Seat switch will normally knock out the spark if you are driving it and happen to fall off. PTO is usually the cranking circuit.

 

[squonk 38,862]

This probably won't make sense but:

 

If you have a voltmeter. With key on you should have 12 volts at the coil " +"  If you do Then move to the coil "- " 

Take out the spark plug. Turn the engine clockwise flywheel side   by hand. You should have 0 volts at the meter most of the time while you are turning the engine. ( Point's closed ) Keep turning the engine. When the points open you will get 12volts on your meter. Keep turning the engine. The meter should go back to 0 volts when the points close again. If the meter never reads 12 volts the points aren't opening or are so dirty the electricity is traveling thru the gunk. If the meter reads 12volts all the time, the points aren't closing or are corroded enough electricity can't get to ground thru the points or the points bracket itself isn't grounded.

 

Same thing with a 12volt test light. The light should be off most of the time the motor is turning. And light up briefly when the points open. 

[TC10284 109]

2 hours ago, squonk said:

This probably won't make sense but:

 

If you have a voltmeter. With key on you should have 12 volts at the coil " +"  If you do Then move to the coil "- " 

Take out the spark plug. Turn the engine clockwise flywheel side   by hand. You should have 0 volts at the meter most of the time while you are turning the engine. ( Point's closed ) Keep turning the engine. When the points open you will get 12volts on your meter. Keep turning the engine. The meter should go back to 0 volts when the points close again. If the meter never reads 12 volts the points aren't opening or are so dirty the electricity is traveling thru the gunk. If the meter reads 12volts all the time, the points aren't closing or are corroded enough electricity can't get to ground thru the points or the points bracket itself isn't grounded.

 

Same thing with a 12volt test light. The light should be off most of the time the motor is turning. And light up briefly when the points open. 

 

It makes great sense and I'll give that a try asap. Thanks!

[TC10284 109]

6 hours ago, squonk said:

This probably won't make sense but:

 

If you have a voltmeter. With key on you should have 12 volts at the coil " +"  If you do Then move to the coil "- " 

Take out the spark plug. Turn the engine clockwise flywheel side   by hand. You should have 0 volts at the meter most of the time while you are turning the engine. ( Point's closed ) Keep turning the engine. When the points open you will get 12volts on your meter. Keep turning the engine. The meter should go back to 0 volts when the points close again. If the meter never reads 12 volts the points aren't opening or are so dirty the electricity is traveling thru the gunk. If the meter reads 12volts all the time, the points aren't closing or are corroded enough electricity can't get to ground thru the points or the points bracket itself isn't grounded.

 

Same thing with a 12volt test light. The light should be off most of the time the motor is turning. And light up briefly when the points open. 

 

OK so here's what I did. I hope I did this correctly. 

Turned key switch to Run. Connected positive of coil to positive of multimeter. Connected negative of multimeter to engine block. Got 13v. Moved multimeter positive from positive of coil to negative of coil. Got 13v. Took out spark plug. Turned flywheel over clockwise by hand. The voltage never dropped. I could get it to drop to around 12.5v the faster I spun it by hand. 

I tried cleaning the point contacts again with the nail file but no change. 
Pics:

https://pic8.co/a/7d2c86ea-5b4c-47ba-af72-1b10792792fe

[squonk 38,862]

Points are very dirty and look burnt. I also see what looks to be dead grass inside the pivot. Replace the points and condenser and retry. Set the points gap at .020 when the pushrod is at the longest point. As you rotate the engine, you will see the did extend. You may have to hold it into the engine to feel it. 

[squonk 38,862]

I took the liberty of putting a couple of you pictures here. points are definitely shot plus lots of grunge in there. Do you gave the cover and gasket for them? Also included a video on setting points.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TC10284 109]

5 minutes ago, squonk said:

I took the liberty of putting a couple of you pictures here. points are definitely shot plus lots of grunge in there. Do you gave the cover and gasket for them? Also included a video on setting points.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks. I will order new points for it. 

I do have the cover and gasket and they look to be in good shape. 

The video will definitely be helpful. 

I appreciate you guys' help. I'm new to working on a points based system. 

[The Tuul Crib 7,332]

Have you changed out the condenser?

[squonk 38,862]

Don't forget new condenser too! 

[TC10284 109]

27 minutes ago, The Tuul Crib said:

Have you changed out the condenser?

 

Not yet, but I just ordered new points and a condenser. Thanks!

[TC10284 109]

The new points and condenser fixed the problem instantly. However, the engine has a bad knock in it, so I won't be able to use it until it gets rebuilt.