K-181 (2)

[Gregor 4,838]

This is the 181 from the 876. It is a Genny motor I believe you call them. I tore it down today. Everything looks pretty good, as much as you can tell by looking any way. The oil, while thick and dirty, didn't have any bits and pieces in it. I took that as a good sign. No scoring of cylinder, or piston. The crank is smooth. I am not even going to bother measuring anything. I will let the machine shop do it.Not quite everything looked good.The fuel pump seems o be missing a limb. It was no where to be found. When I got the tractor, the fuel pump had been by-passed, with a line running directly to the carb, from the tank. Yet another vote for electric fuel pump. BUT NOT A CHEAP ONE!  I am hoping the machine shop has a better way of removing the exhaust pipe than I did, on the first 181. I did manage to get it out, but with some damage to the 1" threads. Not enough to bother though, I don't think.

[pfrederi 17,146]

Many K-181 had pulse fuel pump externally looks like other but no arm to ride on the cam.

[Gregor 4,838]

I took the block and crank to the machine shop. I hope this one comes back as fast.

 

PS. I wrote this mostly so I could have a record of when I took it.

[Gregor 4,838]

5 hours ago, pfrederi said:

Many K-181 had pulse fuel pump externally looks like other but no arm to ride on the cam.

There is an inlet for the gas, and an outlet for the gas. That's all.  What drives the pump? Air pressure?

[953 nut 51,648]

There should be an inlet check valve, an outlet check valve and a diaphragm.  The piston going up and down will generate alternating pressure and vacuum to move the diaphragm.

[The Tuul Crib 7,332]

1 minute ago, 953 nut said:

There should be an inlet check valve, an outlet check valve and a diaphragm.  The piston going up and down will generate alternating pressure and vacuum to move the diaphragm.

Damn your quick!

[The Tuul Crib 7,332]

I have yet to run across one of these motors that has this type of fuel pump 

on it but they do work well.

I have switched to electric fuel pumps and I'm not looking back. I don't need another ruined motor due to a diaphragm failure 

[rjg854 10,731]

There's a very good reason to always check the oil before each use. I have had pretty good luck rebuilding the mechanical fuel pumps. 

[Gregor 4,838]

28 minutes ago, The Tuul Crib said:

I have yet to run across one of these motors that has this type of fuel pump 

on it but they do work well.

I have switched to electric fuel pumps and I'm not looking back. I don't need another ruined motor due to a diaphragm failure 

[Gregor 4,838]

After the fiasco I created for myself with the K-181 (1), I thought I would be a little bit better prepared with the K-181 (2) , a Genny motor. I watched a video from Norman at isavetractors, and a video from Tayrl Dactl. Normans way seemed simpler, especially since I have not owned a timing light in 30 years or more. While trying to set the timing on #1, I spent a loooonnng time trying to locate the timing mark on the edge of flywheel. I finally had to remove the shroud to find it. It's there, but very faint, and barely legible.

I thought I would get ahead of the games with #2 and paint the timing mark on the flywheel now. It's been all cleaned up, painted shiny red, should be easy to find, right? NOPE ! I looked and looked. I put it under my lighted, magnifying, inspection glass. NOPE !  Not there. I walked away from it. Decided to move on to others things for the time being.

I was cleaning up the bearing plate this afternoon, getting it ready for paint. I noticed it didn't have a timing mark where it should have either. But there is a hole.   With a plug in it. I look on the backside of the bearing plate, and sure enough,  there's the timing mark. On the backside, instead of the inside. Well, that can only mean one thing. The timing mark on the flywheel must be on the backside, instead of the edge. Yep, there it was. You can't see it in the pic, but the top one is "T" and the bottom is "S". This is probably common knowledge to most of you, but it's something new for me. AGAIN ! Something I can put in my memory bank this week, and forget by next week.

I am starting to wonder if the Wheel Horse Gods are testing me.

[pfrederi 17,146]

Older Big Blocks have the timing hole on the rear of the engine shroud from where you can't see the points.... real fun

[squonk 38,911]

I just searched for the timing marks in a K341 yesterday. Couldn't see them. Hit the edge of the wheel with carb cleaner and went inside as old guys need to do more often than before.. Went back outside and there they were. Carb cleaner really brings out cracks, marks and numbers in cast iron.

[953 nut 51,648]

4 hours ago, Gregor said:

The timing mark on the flywheel must be on the backside, instead of the edge.

Ignition timing on Kohler engines.

 

Gapping the ignition points at .020 has always been the standard answer to how points should be set. That probably will get you into the ballpark where the engine will run, but with a bit of additional effort you can improve the engine’s power and performance.

The Kohler engine manual in the Red Square files section covers two methods for setting the ignition timing, Static Timing and using a Timing Light. This manual is a relatively new manual and it overlooks the fact that many of our engines were built prior to the ACR (automatic compression release) camshaft.

Earlier engines (mostly 1965 and earlier) had a Spark Advance camshaft that can not be timed using Static timing. At rest (and very low RPMs) the timing is retarded to fire slightly after TDC. The timing mark (SP) on your flywheel is at twenty degrees before top dead center but at rest the points on these engines break about ten degrees after top dead center. The only reliable way to check or set the timing on these engines is with a timing light.

There are a couple ways to determine what camshaft you have. Presuming the camshaft in your engine is the one it was born with the data plate on the engine has a suffix that can tell you what camshaft was used. The table below will tell you the suffix applicable to your engine. The other way to determine what camshaft you have is to remove the cam gear cover and take a look. If you see a mechanism attached to the cam gear it is the ACR cam.

 

 

The following engines have the spark advance camshaft;

K-141, Suffix prior to “C”

K-161, Suffix prior to “J”

K-181, Suffix prior to “D”

K-241, Suffix prior to “D”

[Gregor 4,838]

I figured, if I made a dash to the "big city" this morning, to pick up parts at the media blaster, I would get a phone call from the "big city" this afternoon, telling me my block was done, and I did.  But I got the block for my K-181 #2 Genny motor anyway. A quick wipe down, taping, and in to the paint booth, sort-of. Bored .020 over, rod .010. New valve guides, and seats ground, and valves lapped in. $270  I don't know f that's a lot or not, but I'm happy with it.

 

[squonk 38,911]

Sounds about the average price.

[Gregor 4,838]

Anyone happen to know the length of this belt? Flywheel to starter/generator. K-181

[wallfish 15,919]

3/8 x 31.5

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184572627655?hash=item2af962cac7:g:2rMAAOSwsfpf0EKl

[Gregor 4,838]

Well, it's complete. That took a lot longer than necessary, but that's what happens when you have parts spread between 2 spare bedrooms, and your garage. Then your wife decides now is a good time to empty out ALL the closets and paint them. One piece went off into never never land, and I had to make it.  I apparently don't have the right belt on right now, but the motor spins over with the starter. I have a 1/2 X 33 on it. I will have to get the correct belt. I will wait until morning to try and fire it up. I would rather go to bed wondering if it will, rather than wonder why it didn't.  I have it on my test stand, with the starter going through a solenoid. Like I said, the motor spins, and I have 12 volts at the coil with the key on, so I hope it's good to go.  I plan to use a pulse fuel pump on this motor, but right now it's being fed by an electric fuel pump, so I simply have the line to the block, plugged off. I saw a pic where someone had their grass screen painted black. I liked that, so I did it too.

 

[Gregor 4,838]

It fired right up, and seems to run perfect, at this time anyway. I still have a lot to learn about how to set those governors.apparently, but I will get it. Not that I know how to check it, but the generator doesn't seem to be putting out anything at all. I have read before about "polarizing" a voltage regulator, so I googled it, and read this:

Clip your jumper wire to your battery terminal. Find the terminal marked "F" (for fuel terminal) on the regulator. Touch the free end of the jumper wire to the "F" terminal twice for less than a second each time. You have now polarized your regulator.

Well, if I am suppose to have a fuel line running to my regulator, I have made a major, Bone Head Move. The starter works fine. Maybe a non working generator is why this thing got parked in the first place, I have no idea. But it starts and runs well.

Any tips of what to look for, or check on the charging system? Do I need to have the VR hooked to a battery, for it to work?

Edited April 24, 2021 by Gregor

[pfrederi 17,146]

You do not need to polarize a S/G.  The first time you crank her she is polarized

  You polarize a generator by briefly hooking the Battery + to the Genny A terminal. 

 

That happens with and S/G when you crank it.

 

Yes you need it hooked to a battery...How did you get it to start ?

 

Can't clearly see your wiring but you need at least 3 wires on a regulator.  Field, Armature (aka Gen) and Battery.

 

Read battery voltage while running should be over 13.5.  If not Ground the F terminal voltage should go up and you may hear the engine start to work a bit.  If so problem is your regulator.  No increase the genny itself has an issue.

 

 

[Gregor 4,838]

8 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

You do not need to polarize a S/G.  The first time you crank her she is polarized

  You polarize a generator by briefly hooking the Battery + to the Genny A terminal. 

 

That happens with and S/G when you crank it.

 

Yes you need it hooked to a battery...How did you get it to start ?

 

Can't clearly see your wiring but you need at least 3 wires on a regulator.  Field, Armature (aka Gen) and Battery.

 

Read battery voltage while running should be over 13.5.  If not Ground the F terminal voltage should go up and you may hear the engine start to work a bit.  If so problem is your regulator.  No increase the genny itself has an issue.

 

 

Thank You.  I will work on all these things. I started it with the starter, wired through a solenoid, and turned the key. It turns over just fine.

[pfrederi 17,146]

3 minutes ago, Gregor said:

Thank You.  I will work on all these things. I started it with the starter, wired through a solenoid, and turned the key. It turns over just fine.

 

 

That maybe you problem.  Once the solenoid opens there is no battery connection.  Run a wire form Battery+ to the Bat term on the regulator that may fix you up

[squonk 38,911]

Best belt to get for the S/G is a Napa Gates 25-7320.  It's a Cogged automotive belt that will last longer and grip better than a FHP belt. More money but worth it IMHO

[Gregor 4,838]

11 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Once the solenoid opens there is no battery connection.

I had the motor on my test stand. It's now in the tractor, and wired according to the book. No solenoid.

[pfrederi 17,146]

Do you have a 3 or 4 terminal Voltage regulator (is there a terminal on the bottom?  )   What are 3 upper termials labeled/

 

Edited April 24, 2021 by pfrederi