Won’t start

[Jason Miller 24]

My 856 won’t start. Turns over just won’t fire. Always does need a place to start I’ve never had an issue with this machine it was my grandfathers he bought new.

jason

[Ed Kennell 41,942]

It needs fuel and fire to run.   Check for fire first.    I would pull the spark plug and ground it to a head bolt.    You should see a good spark when you crank the starter.

[Rob R 973]

What Ed said if spark okay then on to the fuel delivery all the way from the tank to the carb..... pump also in question needs fuel to it and then out should pulse these pumps are good a pushing NOT pulling so keep that in mind. 

[Achto 29,394]

Like stated above, figure out what is missing. Fuel or spark. We'll do our best to help you out from there.

 

 

[953 nut 59,917]

Glad to see a third generation showing some love to a family .  As others have said it could be fuel or it could be spark that is keeping the engine from running. 

What type of gas have you been burning?   The fuel systems in older equipment are not compatible with ethanol. It is best to run non-ethanol gas, https://www.pure-gas.org/  this site will help you to locate real gas. If you have been running E-10 you probably should drain it, replace the fuel hose and filter and add some Seafoam fuel treatment to the real gas.

If you don't have spark the first thing to check would be your ignition points. It takes very little corrosion to keep them from working properly. You can remove the cover from the points and place the edge of a dollar bill between the contacts and run it back and forth a couple times to clean them up.

Please let us know what you find.

[Tuneup 1,452]

Jason - be sure to tell us your level of experience with working with multimeters or test lights so we can better recommend steps moving forward. A few minutes can get you to ID whether the ignition is good and your fuel use and its age will also reveal much. Government gasoline is garbage. Burn it in 30 days or pay an ever increasing price, especially with small engines.

[troutbum70 858]

Jason as an example I purchased a new inverter generator this past fall from the dealership where we bought our 5th wheeler, they had put gas in it about a month before I purchased it to try it out. After I got it home I could not get it to start, I had to drain the poop gas the dealership had put in it and put ethanol free gas in. On the second crank it was running and no problem since, in short try draining the gas in it and put fresh ethanol free gas in and try it. 

[Jason Miller 24]

Ok Wow! Feel the love already. Ok I replaced the spark plug no spark when cranking. The fuel is good use good fuel always. No I don’t have a meter. I use this thing al the time first time it wouldn’t start. Just replaced rear tires today. The original wheel horse tires were on they dry rotted. Where do I go from here

[Skipper 1,789]

check for current on coil. check starter switch if no current. If current OK on coil, check points and condenser. also check that all wires are good, and tight on all connection points. Fuses check of cause, if there are any.

 

Might also want to check safety switches if there are any on it.

 

If you find above OK, and the plug is surely grounded, and still no spark, it points to a bad coil.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Skipper

[Jason Miller 24]

Where is the coil and starter switch and points? Easiest way to check for current? I don’t think there are any saftey switches.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Jason Miller
Added a line

[pfrederi 18,665]

Points blue circle Coil yellow.  Look on top of coil two small terminals.  One with a +.  Ignition switch on see if you have voltage to that small +  (You could rig up a light bulb if you do not have a meter.  a$5 meter from harbor freight would be a good thing to get

[Pullstart 66,694]

 

[ranger 1,798]

Jason, one thing to watch out for if you buy yourself a multimeter, you may find when checking for voltage on a connection that everything appears ok. But when a load is applied, ie, lights etc, the voltage disappears. So sometimes a test light can save a lot of time looking for faults in the wrong place and changing components that are ok, when the real problem is a dirty connector or ground which will still allow a meter to read the voltage because it doesn’t apply a high “electrical loading” to the circuit being tested. (A test light will),  If you have a voltage that disappears under load, try checking again with test lamp “grounded” to battery negative, you may have a poor ground somewhere.

Doug.

[Jason Miller 24]

Thanks Guys so much! I had some time this afternoon. Took off the points cover first oily and dirty so I cleaned. (Bad thing is half the gasket tore off so now I have a little gap on one side.) next took off the coil. Cleaned all the little prong connectors that go on top. I believe the + side had 2 and the - side had one. I wire brushed them real good. Then I took off the fuel line on the side of the carb. It’s a 1/2 inch bolt metal u shaped line that connects the carb to a small bowl. Lots of black dirt in both ends. I turned the key and fuel pumped out of the bottom . I put all back together and turned it over. Took a while but did fire and is running now although rough. Kept shutting off seemed like it wasn’t getting gas. Seems to have a miss. I’m thinking the carb maybe dirty?? Never had it off since I got this from my pap 8 years ago. Of course never needed too.

jason

[Jason Miller 24]

[Ed Kennell 41,942]

Sounds good.    You have fire.    You can do it right and clean the carb, fuel pump, and fuel tank and replace all the fuel lines.      Or, dump a can of Sea Foam in the tank and hope for the best.

What does the air cleaner look like?    If it shuts off after running for a few minutes, try running with the fuel tank cap off.   The vent hole may be clogged.

[Jason Miller 24]

So with the carb any suggestions? Is that the two bolts connecting the manifold? I have a small engine shop next door they have a machine they dip them into? Cleaner I assume. Fuel pump where is that located and how do I clean that? Filter and lines I replaced  in the fall when the season was over.

jason

[Ed Kennell 41,942]

15 hours ago, Jason Miller said:

t’s a 1/2 inch bolt metal u shaped line that connects the carb to a small bowl. Lots of black dirt in both ends. I turned the key and fuel pumped out of the bottom .

This "U" shaped line connects the fuel pump to the carb.    If you cleaned this line and had good fuel spurting when you cranked the engine, I would not mess with the fuel pump.    Yes, the carb is bolted to the block by those two bolts.  Take pictures of the choke and throttle linkage so you know how to reinstall the carb.    If the machine shop is experienced in cleaning small engine carbs, then I would let them do it.

[Jason Miller 24]

Thanks Ed I don’t have a choke cable it broke last year I need another one. What about the throttle linkage where is best to take that off? Will I need a new gasket when I put back on?

[Ed Kennell 41,942]

Take the throttle linkage loose at the carb.    The carb gaskets usually come off without tearing, but if your machine shop works on small engines, they should have a new gasket.

[Jason Miller 24]

Took off the carburetor today and headed it to the small engine shop. I did notice something this morning a puddle of gasoline dripping from the air cleaner? My gas tank was empty as well?? Would this be the carburetor issues?

[Ed Kennell 41,942]

Yes, the float is not shutting off the fuel in the bowl.  The carb bowl overfills allowing fuel to flow  out thru the air cleaner and drains the tank.   

[lynnmor 7,814]

12 minutes ago, Jason Miller said:

Took off the carburetor today and headed it to the small engine shop. I did notice something this morning a puddle of gasoline dripping from the air cleaner? My gas tank was empty as well?? Would this be the carburetor issues?

 

If that gas overflow made its way into the engine, you better check the oil now.  If there is any evidence like smell or higher oil level, don't take a chance.

[Jason Miller 24]

I checked the oil looks good. I’m thinking it was drip out of the carburetor bowl. Not sure what that means. We’ll see when I get the carburetor back from the engine shop. He’s getting me a new air filter as well.

[JohnD 145]

@Jason Miller are you having fun yet?  These guys are great support!  Hopefully this came at a good time for you to get into this and you don't have to rush the repairs.