No Drill Doctor

[Shynon 7,435]

I had a Drill Doctor and had mixed results.  Have not mastered sharpening by hand so I remembered back in my high school days  Mr. Slifka our shop teacher would sharpen with a jig like this. So on I go and find a vintage Craftsman  and with a few trial and error attempts I  now have some very nice sharp drills. And yes the Doctor is gone.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Shynon

[Pullstart 59,561]

Cool tool!  Does it use the side of the wheel instead of the face?  I was taught that’s a big no-no... though I’ve been known to break a rule in the past...

[Shynon 7,435]

3 minutes ago, pullstart said:

Does it use the side of the wheel instead of the face?

you can use either, I've just seen it used on the side, no concave surface

[DennisThornton 4,769]

I've got one around here somewhere, but for most I just wing it by hand.  I have a Drill Doctor as well but I tend to store up bits and then run several at once relearning how to use it and not forgetting until I'm through that batch...

[WVHillbilly520H 10,369]

14 hours ago, pullstart said:

Cool tool!  Does it use the side of the wheel instead of the face?  I was taught that’s a big no-no... though I’ve been known to break a rule in the past...

Oh my, the older ToolMakers where I used work would nearly "kill" you over using the side of the grinding wheels, "use the belt sander for that" would be one of the responses others I won't repeat,  kinda funny the drill bit sharpening came up again today as I was in HF (for a better ground clamp for my mig welder) but of course have to see what's new, looking around their top 2 brands of bench grinder has the drill bit angle bevels built in to the left rests, and they also have a "cheap" drill driven bit sharpener.

https://www.harborfreight.com/drill-bit-sharpener-98061.html... 

 

https://www.harborfreight.com/8-in-bench-grinder-with-led-light-57287.html...

 

https://www.harborfreight.com/8-in-variable-speed-bench-grinder-with-led-worklight-57285.html...

 

By no means am I a professional at free hand sharpening bits but only practice and trial and error can get you the results you want, and I used both the bench grinder and belt sanders, different materials require slightly different drill tip angles for better results.

Edited March 1, 2021 by WVHillbilly520H

[JAinVA 4,619]

Have you ever seen a grinding wheel explode?  I have and it ain't pretty !  Side  loading  on a standard grinding wheel is a dangerous thing. Grinding wheels meant for a side load are bonded to a steel backing disk.

Edited March 1, 2021 by JAinVA

[Ed Kennell 35,615]

Free hander here.

[WHX?? 46,696]

33 minutes ago, pullstart said:

I was taught that’s a big no-no... though I’ve been known to break a rule in the past...

Here too Kev although I do it more than  I care to admit.   Only for very very light work JA. 

So I was fabricating a plate to weld over the F plate on a tractor that is cracked so to drill the holes for tranny mounting I grabbed a bit that was questionable ... had a chip out of the cutting edge. Figured nothing  to lose so try free handing it. Worked pretty good. Extra holes for filler weld @Achto...gonna let you burn this one till I get some practice on  that new to me welder.

[Shynon 7,435]

28 minutes ago, JAinVA said:

Have you ever seen a grinding wheel explode?  I have and it ain't pretty !  Side  loading  on a standard grinding wheel is a dangerous thing

No haven't seen that, I am surprised they still sell these things. On a side not, It's not like grinding a mower blade, as you make pretty light passes. 

[WHX?? 46,696]

Yah Tom very light .... I would probably suck at free handing the little ones. 

[JAinVA 4,619]

I hate to admit it but I have used the side of the wheel like a lot of you, and I know better.  My only concern is that the the folks here realize that any time you do that  it can have serious, unintended  results Be safe and luck, JAinVA

[DennisThornton 4,769]

11 minutes ago, JAinVA said:

I hate to admit it but I have used the side of the wheel like a lot of you, and I know better.  My only concern is that the the folks here realize that any time you do that  it can have serious, unintended  results Be safe and luck, JAinVA

One of the few times I was scolded while trying to earn a few during HS was to NOT use the side of a grindstone!  I remember that scolding EVERY time I do!

 

Seriously, one should not use the sides, and I don't if I'm trying to reprofile a broken bit or so some serious grinding but to gently touch the sides while putting the finishing touches on a bit.  Well, on occasion, but please don't tell anyone.  And, I only do it if I have NOT retouched the front grinding surface as it should be.  Perfectly profiled front is fine for bits.

[formariz 11,849]

On the subject of how one is supposed to use certain tools or on not to use them. Manufacturers have a great amount of  liability on the products they make and they have to create all kinds of warnings and rules on the use of their products to the point that many of them may even sound ridiculous. As it is said today, they essentially need to make things idiot proof.

 

I will speak only for myself and about myself and I absolutely do not condone or recommend that anyone do anything that it is not safe or they are not comfortable with, specially when it comes to the use of machinery or any tool. Having said all of that, I have been using all kinds of cutting tools and machinery pretty much since a very young age. I do grind drill bits on the side of the stone along with using things as a table saws, band saws, routers, jigsaws and many others in ways many times that would make anyone cringe at the mere thought of it. I am not immune to getting hurt nor am I smarter than anyone else. I am however lucky to have been schooled since very young, on how everything that I use works, the dangers involved, the exact consequences of specific actions on these tools, and how much one can push the limits of the risk without getting it to the point that it will outright dangerous. Did I ever get hurt on any of these things I use? Yes, but every single time I did was not because I was using it in a way not recommended, but because I was either distracted, tired or in a hurry. It was always because of my stupidity or stubbornness. There are many things and end results that cannot be achieved on these tools if one follows every rule strictly, although many times they  are designed or intended to perform such tasks. Table saws are a good example of that. There are many operations that it is designed for that cannot be done with all guards in place or strictly following all safety rules.

 

Essentially summarizing what I am trying to say, is that the biggest safety measure on any tool is ones complete knowledge of such tool. That knowledge includes knowing the properties of all its components,and knowledge also of things  such as speeds, inertia . In general also a knowledge of physics. If one does not possesses  those qualities it is not a matter of if, but a matter of when something is going to happen. Having that knowledge one approaches these tools with confidence and certainty of the outcome. Otherwise one approaches them with fear, reluctance, and hesitation, being then many times when disaster happens.

Edited March 1, 2021 by formariz

[JoeM 7,608]

Either using the doctor, guide or free hand you have to pay attention to detail.

A steady hand / consistent motion is the key, even using the dr. Light steady pressure and keeping the bit cool helps.

 

As far as using the side of a grinding wheel....if you keep the face true there is no reason to use the side. (and there is a difference in quality of wheels also, cheep ones can be dangerous) 

[ri702bill 7,274]

All:

Way back when I was a Machine Tool assembler, I was shown by a senior coworker how to hand sharpen drill bits. The key was to dress them as soon as they got a bit dull. This other guy was really good at it - we would occasionally need a stubby bit and he could cut a regular jobbers length bit down and sharpen the cut edge - not as easy to do as the web is thicker in the middle than the tip - he would then split the point by hand to resemble the original cutting end.

 

Bill

[squonk 38,845]

I had an old retired engineer as a customer. There wasn't a thing he didn't know and if there was he'd work to find the answer. The subject of sharpening drills came up. He went into this long dissertation on how a drill doctor is junk and something about multiple angles and what not. I told him I had an entire index of dull drill bits and he says to give them to him. Couple weeks later he returns them all sharpened. I could not believe how well the worked. They worked better than they were when new. He never did tell me how he actually did it. 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,369]

1 hour ago, ri702bill said:

All:

Way back when I was a Machine Tool assembler, I was shown by a senior coworker how to hand sharpen drill bits. The key was to dress them as soon as they got a bit dull. This other guy was really good at it - we would occasionally need a stubby bit and he could cut a regular jobbers length bit down and sharpen the cut edge - not as easy to do as the web is thicker in the middle than the tip - he would then split the point by hand to resemble the original cutting end.

 

Bill

When we broke drill bits instead of running to the tool crib to get another we would grind them down to an unchipped surface and start over with a completely new cutting surface, then as these dulled we would again sharpen or re-angle and sharpen for other materials, and shorter bits in smaller diameters just work better for starting holes (mills or lathes) IMO/experiences from working in a machine shop for nearly 15 years, I surmise that I must have absorbed a bit of information/good practices from my older mentors there/then, now everything is CNC new tools every time, versus making what you have work, or "grinding" specialty bits/cutters from HSS tool stock for 1 off jobs, learned a lot just don't get to practice it a much these days, thanks for bringing that up.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

42 minutes ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

When we broke drill bits instead of running to the tool crib to get another we would grind them down to an unchipped surface and start over with a completely new cutting surface, then as these dulled we would again sharpen or re-angle and sharpen for other materials, and shorter bits in smaller diameters just work better for starting holes (mills or lathes) IMO/experiences from working in a machine shop for nearly 15 years, I surmise that I must have absorbed a bit of information/good practices from my older mentors there/then, now everything is CNC new tools every time, versus making what you have work, or "grinding" specialty bits/cutters from HSS tool stock for 1 off jobs, learned a lot just don't get to practice it a much these days, thanks for bringing that up.

I remember times of breaking the only right sized bit I had!  Only choice was to regrind!  Now I'm glad I broke those.

[Ed Kennell 35,615]

Keep the bits sharp and cool during drilling and sharpening.  As discussed recently, the drill can be sharpened specifically  for  the material  hardness.

[WHX?? 46,696]

I did not know they made a wheel for side use JA. May have to look into that. 

4 hours ago, JoeM said:

..if you keep the face true

My problem Joe... I have several types of wheel dressers but never seemed to able to have any luck with them and always afraid the wheel might shatter. 

[Pullstart 59,561]

1 minute ago, WHX24 said:

I did not know they made a wheel for side use JA. May have to look into that. 

My problem Joe... I have several types of wheel dressers but never seemed to able to have any luck with them and always afraid the wheel might shatter. 

Uncle Jim just keep the wheel dresser moving side to side and it’ll do the job.  It’ll throw a lot of debris at you, so be aware of that but it won’t shatter.  It’s rebalancing the wheel as well as truing the face.  In the machine shop, we were supposed to dress the wheel after every start up, before using the grinder!

[DennisThornton 4,769]

9 hours ago, formariz said:

distracted, tired or in a hurry

Biggest enemies of well being!  Oh, if could just here and there repeat a few seconds of my life...

[Pullstart 59,561]

13 hours ago, WHX24 said:

get some practice on  that new to me welder

Way to go and put Dan out of a good paying side job!  

 

I’m proud of ya for taking the plunge into the field of pulling a new trigger!  Welder’up Uncle Jim!

[Pullstart 59,561]

1 minute ago, DennisThornton said:

Biggest enemies of well being!  Oh, if could just here and there repeat a few seconds of my life...

If I could, I’d have a lot less scars on my left hand from the last year!

[DennisThornton 4,769]

I like the rotary dresser constantly moving back and forth for quickly reshaping a grind stone:

But I like the stone dresser for final finishing

I've bought several used bench grinders and I've often amazed at the condition of the wheels.  Not sure what they were doing, but it seems they were doing it all in one spot!