M-18 Rebuild - Replace - Button up and run???

[pfrederi 18,667]

Opened up the M-18 on my 418A.  Was just planning on decarbon as she has been running OK, no smoking, was even planning on adding an oil filter..  Hour meter has 1254 but didn't work when I got it and has had periodic outages since.  I am sure she has more hours.  Had to replace the front tires as one was actually worn.  Hydro works well.

 

However, I don't think you should be able to wiggle the pistons in the cylinders with finger pressure....

 

Option 1#

Started looking at parts, some are a bit hard to come by in oversize. Everything is doubled with twin...  Parts (aftermarket) are going to be over  $325.  Based on what my machine shop has charged for a K single I am guessing he will want $250-300.   Allowing for some unforeseen stuff we are talking $700. (assuming I can get all the over under sizes it may need.

 

Option #2

Predator 22 is just a bit more than that (depending on coupons)

 

Option #3

Button it back up run it till it gets really bad. 

I have 3 other 48" mower tractors (That is her job since she was fired from snowblower duty.  hydro lift takes for ever to decide to work).  2 C-175-8 and a Charger 16

 

Option #3a 

Button up and sell quick before she starts to smoke

[WHX?? 51,739]

Same boat as you with a KT19... I'm going with option 3 and let her blow. Maybe do a pred. or a repo with a series 2 from a donor tractor. I do have a Onan 20 I would have to put about 600 or 700 in. A Super C with an Onan would be cool.

Did it use oil Paul?

Edited January 30, 2021 by WHX24

[pfrederi 18,667]

24 minutes ago, WHX24 said:

Same boat as you with a KT17... I'm going with option 3 and let her blow. Maybe do a pred. or a repo with a series 2 from a donor tractor. I do have a Onan 20 I would have to put about 600 or 700 in. A Super C with an Onan would be cool.

Did it use oil Paul?

 No unusual oil use, but then she isn't worked very hard a couple hours mowing

[squonk 43,799]

How about plopping a nice K321 in it?

[pfrederi 18,667]

I will have a nice 301 in a month or so.  Not sure that and a hydro will do really well with a 48 deck...

[SylvanLakeWH 28,393]

Option 3...

Not smoking... not using oil...

meh... let her run...

[cod 121]

Hard choices at times as none of us are rolling in $ and parts are getting harder to find. I think #3 is what most us have to look forward to once the M-18's go even though in my option they're are good engine.  I've got 2 418's and while having a spare set of parts comes in handy, the 'spare engine' has almost 1600hrs on it and I waffle about rebuilding it. You seem to have a good handle on maintaining your equipment so there's a fair chance that you can get many more years of mowing before having to change the engine.

 

Good luck!

[953 nut 59,925]

4 hours ago, pfrederi said:

Option #3

Button it back up run it till it gets really bad. 

Considering the size of your herd I would just drive it since it isn't smoking  or giving you problems.

[WHX?? 51,739]

2 hours ago, pfrederi said:

I will have a nice 301 in a month or so.  Not sure that and a hydro will do really well with a 48 deck...

I personally wouldn't try to spin a 48 with nothing less than a sweet 16. Especially on a hydro. 

'Nother ? Why was it taken off blower work, lack of power?

Also were the heads and pistons washed clean of carbon indicating oil useage? If no run her like you stole her, option 3. Just keep in mind piston/cylinder scoring is likely to happen and might make a rebuild down the road more of a job or worse take her out of 30 over if ever decided to go that route. Not an issue if a repo is in mind and you decide to keep her. 

[richmondred01 2,307]

Opinion 1.

The m18 is a great engine. The only down side is non adjustable valves.

Its not a bad job. Much easier then the onans. 

I think your price is spot on with the machine work and parts. 
 

[wh5208speed 646]

I would look for a Craftsman GT 6000 as a donor tractor. It has the twin cylinder Kohler Magnum with the same output shaft. They can be had pretty cheap ($250-700 depending on the condition).

[pfrederi 18,667]

1 hour ago, WHX24 said:

I personally wouldn't try to spin a 48 with nothing less than a sweet 16. Especially on a hydro. 

'Nother ? Why was it taken off blower work, lack of power?

Also were the heads and pistons washed clean of carbon indicating oil useage? If no run her like you stole her, option 3. Just keep in mind piston/cylinder scoring is likely to happen and might make a rebuild down the road more of a job or worse take her out of 30 over if ever decided to go that route. Not an issue if a repo is in mind and you decide to keep her. 

 

Not power it was the eaton hydro and the common problem of delay in operation  of the lift. I would start her up in the shop and it would take a minute or two before it would pick up the blower so i could move it outside to warm up. (Had to maneuver a bit around my truck t get out and it didn't do well with the blower on the ground.. Filled the shop with fumes.  My sunstrands will pick up and move out immediately.

 

There was  plenty of carbon build up on the head and top side of the piston.

 

I had Charger 12 with  a 301 did OK with a 48  (better than my neighbors 19 hp JD big Box store version)

Edited January 30, 2021 by pfrederi

[pfrederi 18,667]

40 minutes ago, richmondred01 said:

Opinion 1.

The m18 is a great engine. The only down side is non adjustable valves.

Its not a bad job. Much easier then the onans. 

I think your price is spot on with the machine work and parts. 
 

 In looking around it is unclear if piston/rings are available in .010 or .020 over,  also are rods available in .010 under.

[JoeM 8,334]

Maybe another economical option, Briggs Vanguard V twin out of a Cub. I've done two 16HP and they run real good. Some of those 90 ish vintage cubs are going for less then 300 and might be able to hear it run before you buy. Down side was the exhaust needing modified and 1 inch to 1 1/8 sleeve for drive pulley. 

[Bill D 2,247]

5 hours ago, wh5208speed said:

I would look for a Craftsman GT 6000 as a donor tractor. It has the twin cylinder Kohler Magnum with the same output shaft. They can be had pretty cheap ($250-700 depending on the condition).

Any Magnum from another machine will require use of an electric clutch.  Only WH spec Magnums had the necessary thrust bearings.  Also, some older Sears tractors came with Briggs boxer twins that can be swapped in.  Those engines should have ball bearings on the crankshaft and be able to handle the side loading from the PTO.  Sears also put Onans in some tractors.  

Briggs boxer twins can also be found in some older Snapper tractors as well.

[richmondred01 2,307]

11 hours ago, pfrederi said:

 In looking around it is unclear if piston/rings are available in .010 or .020 over,  also are rods available in .010 under.

my suppler no longer carry’s them however, I will message you a link to someone who does. 

[JohnD 145]

22 hours ago, pfrederi said:

 

 I would start her up in the shop and it would take a minute or two before it would pick up the blower

 

Yup, sounds like my C-175.  I start it up and let it warm up in the shed while I clear the snow out front with a shovel.  After about a minute or two I'll hear the KT-17 growl a little and that's my signal that the Eaton is warmed up.  Keeps the chipmunks and mice away too, but that's another thread... 

[Bill D 2,247]

@gwest_ca.  Garry do you have a chart from Briggs that shows which boxer twins came with ball bearing supported crankshafts.  Someone gave me one awhile back in another thread, but I can't find it now.  Thanks.

[pfrederi 18,667]

58 minutes ago, Bill D said:

@gwest_ca.  Garry do you have a chart from Briggs that shows which boxer twins came with ball bearing supported crankshafts.  Someone gave me one awhile back in another thread, but I can't find it now.  Thanks.

 

[Bill D 2,247]

On 1/30/2021 at 2:02 AM, JoeM said:

Maybe another economical option, Briggs Vanguard V twin out of a Cub. I've done two 16HP and they run real good. Some of those 90 ish vintage cubs are going for less then 300 and might be able to hear it run before you buy. Down side was the exhaust needing modified and 1 inch to 1 1/8 sleeve for drive pulley. 

I like this.  Any more pictures, or is there a thread detailing how exactly you did the swap?  Thanks.  Bill

[JoeM 8,334]

1 hour ago, Bill D said:

Any more pictures

That is about all I got.

I know I had to raise up about an inch to make the belt alignment. I One machine I used channel the other was threaded blocks welded to the original 520 plate.

And the ignition switch is different because the vanguards don't use a coil.

 

[Bill D 2,247]

7 hours ago, pfrederi said:

 

Thanks.  This may come in handy some day.