A long neglected screw

[formariz 11,849]

Today it is hard to keep up with all the newly emerging types of screws and drivers for them. I too use them . In the shop however, like with everything else, I like to work using old ways and methods. Slotted head wood screws have for very long been one of my favorite screws to use. In much of the work I do there are no exposed fasteners, but when it needs to be so, only a slotted wood screw is used. Anything else would just look out of place. No other screw has that classy and dignified look. I am very partial of brass and bronze screws of which I keep a vast supply of. I even have stock of oxidized screws for the right look in some pieces. A brass or bronze screw also will not rust making it easy to remove at a later date specially outside or work subjected to moisture. 

Most shy away from them feeling that they are hard to drive. Reason for that is that most do not have or use the correct tools to use them. 99% of screw drivers or power drivers are incorrect for them. What ever driver is used needs not only to have parallel sides but also be the correct size to match slot. Screwdrivers with nonparallel sides will just slip out and immediately damage slot.  Cabinetmakers' screwdrivers such as the ones on photo are designed for slotted head screws. One can also use a wrench on them for extra torque such  when seating a screw flush with work. I never use power tools to drive slotted head screws. My go to tools are braces specifically short throw braces used with a sleeved driver which prevents bit from slipping off screw. For seating screw flush with surface I then switch to a non sleeved driver so I can see screw's head. I keep various braces set up with different size /type drivers along with others with countersinks. I also use braces to also drive other types of screws. They are fast and efficient never overdriving or overheating screws leading to damaged or snapped off  heads. Foe easier driving have a wax cup under bench which I use to lubricate all screws.

Today we are constantly switching to a new type of screw or cordless drill to make our lives easier but in reality much of it is nothing but an addiction inflicted on us to spend money . Make no mistake I also use them only when necessary such as in production work. It is however the old ways of doing things that I was taught with, that captivate my passion for this craft.

In the short video below I illustrate on how I drive screws here. I merely drilled a short pilot hole to start screws rather than a full length pilot hole as usual. The long steel screw is 6" long and it goes through a knot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WHNJ701 4,164]

If you ever run out of those old slotted screws I have containers full of them from my grandfather her grandfather etc... 

[formariz 11,849]

32 minutes ago, jabelman said:

If you ever run out of those old slotted screws I have containers full of them from my grandfather her grandfather etc... 

I appreciate it. I have quite a stock but if you have 2" and longer or brass I am open to it.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

Really like your rasp/file holder!

Neat little anvil in the video background.

[8ntruck 6,369]

What kind of wax are you using?  I've used bar soap as a lube on screws in hardwood.

[formariz 11,849]

1 hour ago, DennisThornton said:

Really like your rasp/file holder!

Neat little anvil in the video background.

Thank you.

My "Blacksmithing" center - Tools and Equipment - RedSquare Wheel Horse Forum

[formariz 11,849]

28 minutes ago, 8ntruck said:

What kind of wax are you using?  I've used bar soap as a lube on screws in hardwood.

I use several different types of waxes such as Johnsons  Paste Wax, Butchers wax or Bowling Alley Wax. Its something that is used extensively here as a finish or protectant. They are also in paste form so I can refill the bench cup easily with it .I also use paraffin that I have in block form. Bar soap works too. Many things work. I was taught at a young age to rub a nail on my scalp prior to driving it. It works trust me (even after shampooing).

[DennisThornton 4,769]

Many of your posts bring back fond memories, times I spent on my grandparents farm.  Lot's of pre electricity items and skills.  We made lye soap.  I never saw a store bought bar or laundry soap there until my late teens!  Butchered hogs, rendered lard and made soap in a big cast iron kettle!  Those were the good ole days of my life!

Grandma was the first to show me to use lye soap on nails when driving into hard dry white oak.  Never forgot that!

[formariz 11,849]

4 minutes ago, DennisThornton said:

Many of your posts bring back fond memories, times I spent on my grandparents farm.  Lot's of pre electricity items and skills.  We made lye soap.  I never saw a store bought bar or laundry soap there until my late teens!  Butchered hogs, rendered lard and made soap in a big cast iron kettle!  Those were the good ole days of my life!

Grandma was the first to show me to use lye soap on nails when driving into hard dry white oak.  Never forgot that!

Yes great memories. Lard was actually what my grandfather used where I now use wax. There always was plenty of that from slaughtering the pigs. Simple wholesome living it was. I was lucky to have lived there at the very end of that kind of life. Stuff that was just sank into you and stayed for the rest of your life. No frills no luxury nothing going to waste. Self sufficiency and knowledge of all things in life was a must. Appreciation for what one had without today's madness of wanting everything and never being satisfied. At a very young age I had the job of sitting at an anvil and straighten old used nails to be used again. I still do it today and my oldest son also picked up on that. I consider myself real lucky to have been surrounded all my life with people from that kind of upbringing. 

[DennisThornton 4,769]

We never had much yet wanted for nothing!  Never a concern about food or heat, always plenty stored up with cows and chickens pitching in all the time.  Lots of wood in the shed.  And yes, that was a time of change, I suppose good, but in ways it seems not.  I remember straightening lots of nails and even have to stop myself today!  I do still straighten some bent torx screws!  Pricey!  I would not trade those years for anything!  I'd love to bring back how I felt back then!  Not sure it's possible today, maybe...

[SylvanLakeWH 24,129]

Thanks for another great thread!

 

[squonk 38,917]

As an industrial mechanic for the past 20 years I cringe at the thought of slot head screws. Even phillips at times. I worked on a lot of commercial kitchen equipment with stainless steel everything and those fasteners quite often would not budge. I have a good collection of colbalt drill bits to drill the heads off to get things apart. I even have the Vessel brand phillips driver and I twisted that in half one day trying to get out 1 screw (of course it was the last screw) .  Slotted screws make me want to get out the torch! 

 

(I do like the look of brass hinges with the brass slotted screws all with the slots lined up perfectly) 

[tunahead72 2,340]

16 hours ago, formariz said:

... Slotted head wood screws have for very long been one of my favorite screws to use. In much of the work I do there are no exposed fasteners, but when it needs to be so, only a slotted wood screw is used. Anything else would just look out of place. No other screw has that classy and dignified look...

 

... Most shy away from them feeling that they are hard to drive. Reason for that is that most do not have or use the correct tools to use them. 99% of screw drivers or power drivers are incorrect for them. What ever driver is used needs not only to have parallel sides but also be the correct size to match slot. Screwdrivers with nonparallel sides will just slip out and immediately damage slot.  Cabinetmakers' screwdrivers such as the ones on photo are designed for slotted head screws...

 

Excellent thread Cas, and I hear what you're saying about slotted screws and appropriate drivers.

 

I'm curious, do you see any difference in the screws themselves, between older and newer?  We live in an old Pennsylvania farm house, and I've noticed the older (possibly original) slotted screws that I've found in door hinges for example seem to accept screwdrivers more tightly and firmly.  I don't have any cabinetmaker's drivers (yet), just regular mostly older Craftsman screwdrivers, and they seem to work just fine in the older screws, not so well in the newer ones.

 

[Handy Don 10,595]

I've noticed a lot of the newer brass screws at the big box stores look like compressed powdered metal and not forged or machined.

[formariz 11,849]

2 hours ago, tunahead72 said:

 

I'm curious, do you see any difference in the screws themselves, between older and newer?  We live in an old Pennsylvania farm house, and I've noticed the older (possibly original) slotted screws that I've found in door hinges for example seem to accept screwdrivers more tightly and firmly.  I don't have any cabinetmaker's drivers (yet), just regular mostly older Craftsman screwdrivers, and they seem to work just fine in the older screws, not so well in the newer ones.

 

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

I've noticed a lot of the newer brass screws at the big box stores look like compressed powdered metal and not forged or machined.

You both are correct in your observations. Brass screws bought today are mostly garbage. Similar to brass fittings bought today. They are extremely light  and metal has no strength whatsoever. Slots are usually inconsistent width and not deep enough. Totally useless. Similar qualities apply also to steel screws. In addition to it newer screwdrivers, not cabinetmakers', are also slightly different than the old versions hence the reason the older ones they fit better on the slots. I believe that since no one uses slotted head screws anymore they are just made as a general utilitarian tool for things like opening cans without any real attention paid to how they fit on an actual screw.

 

A little story on screw quality today. A little while ago I made a temporary contraption to support a considerable amount of weight that would also move in several different directions. I pretty much cobbled it up from 2x4s. It was temporary to only allow me time to align it  and secure it properly. Conscious of the possibility of the danger involved I went and bought these  special 6" long structural screws that are used today instead of lag bolts.  These things basically cost almost one dollar each so I spent a little time calculating just how many I needed.

Sure enough I shorted myself 4 screws. Not wanting to go back I used 4 vintage 6" long slotted screws I have. The same ones you see me driving on the video. As  fate  and the insanity of what I was doing would have it, things did not go well and weight shifted all to one side collapsing my contraption. Upon inspecting the unit I found some very interesting things. Basically most of the specialty screws snapped in the middle or heads snapped off allowing separation of the wood parts. The 4 slotted screws merely bent in half but kept the pieces of wood together. Nothing more needs to be said about much of screws bought today.

Edited January 22, 2021 by formariz

[tunahead72 2,340]

That all fits what I've observed over the last 40 years or so, I hope nobody was hurt in your little adventure. 

 

We had an addition put on our house back in the mid-1980's.  I'm still in touch with the foreman/carpenter who did most of the work on it, and would hire him in a heartbeat if we were to do something like that again.  I remember one discussion we had about flooring materials.  My wife and I had seen what turned out to be a low-quality veneer product of some sort, and he educated us by describing it as "a picture of wood", not a solid wood product.  I think the same general concept applies to a lot of products and materials and tools we see today.  In this case, what we're seeing are "pictures" of screws, not what anybody of a certain age would actually call real screws.  Neil Young's song "Piece of Cr*p" comes to mind.

 

That being said, do you have a source for better quality fasteners that you feel you can trust?  I'm familiar with McMaster-Carr and Bolt Depot.  Their fasteners seem to be at least as good as anything I can find locally, but I don't really know if they're actually any better. 

 

[71_Bronco 1,072]

Very cool. I love the older tools (even though I admit to grabbing the newer stuff most of the time).

 

What are your thoughts on the ratcheting style braces?

[stevasaurus 22,229]

If I may, being a linemen, I had a ratcheting brace and bit.  I used it to drill 5/8" and 3/4" holes in Telephone poles while I was on hooks.  It was nice, once you got it started, if it was one of those hard white poles.  You needed a sharp bit, but being on hooks, it gave you a little wiggle room.

 

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,044]

1 hour ago, stevasaurus said:

If I may, being a linemen, I had a ratcheting brace and bit.  I used it to drill 5/8" and 3/4" holes in Telephone poles while I was on hooks.  It was nice, once you got it started, if it was one of those hard white poles.  You needed a sharp bit, but being on hooks, it gave you a little wiggle room.

 

Now I know where "Steve on a stick " came from. Out of a history book.

[AMC RULES 36,945]

Yeah, modern stone age history. 

 

[Handy Don 10,595]

5 hours ago, formariz said:

Basically most of the specialty screws snapped in the middle or heads snapped off allowing separation of the wood parts

Yeah, I've used a lot of deck screws for assembly (square and star drives) and noticed they are very strong in tension but are brittle when bent

[formariz 11,849]

10 hours ago, 71_Bronco said:

What are your thoughts on the ratcheting style braces?

Braces are one of my favorite and most used tools. All the ones I own are ratcheting type. I have however some extremely old rare  patented ones such as the one on the second photo. It is a Pexto  from 1892  and it has a totally different ratcheting system and chuck. I have several different types. Many are also short sweep braces like 6" which are relatively rare but ideal for driving screws. They are possibly the most overlooked tools today.

 

13 hours ago, tunahead72 said:

That being said, do you have a source for better quality fasteners that you feel you can trust?  I'm familiar with McMaster-Carr and Bolt Depot.  Their fasteners seem to be at least as good as anything I can find locally, but I don't really know if they're actually any better. 

Luckily unless it is something totally unusual that I need , I do not often have to purchase fasteners for wood. I have quite an impressive stock accumulated over the years, either by inheriting them from older friends, or finding great quantities of old stock in old hardware stores. I am always watching out for stuff like that. Any stuff I bought lately regardless where from its is usually the luck of the draw. Sometimes good others not so good.

The brass and bronze stuff I have tons of it from screws to carriage bolts, rivets etc., that I inherited from a good friends father who was a shipwright.

[AMC RULES 36,945]

On 1/22/2021 at 5:38 PM, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

Now I know where "Steve on a stick " came from. Out of a history book.

 

 

Just in time to do a friendly  PSA.