PTO clutch won’t spin?

[Crmaverick 91]

I’m new to this series tractor, only owned round hoods before so I’m not familiar with the PTO on these. What’s it mean when you can’t spin the PTO pulley when its disengaged? I tried engaging it, the motor started working to try but no belt or pulley movement. Does that mean the whole PTO is shot or could it just be locked from rust? 
thanks 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,499]

The mower drive belt does not look like it is in the idler pulleys correctly. If nothing else loosen the mower drive belt and see what is stopping it from turning. It is not a pto problem I don't think.

 

Garry

[Handy Don 10,606]

2 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

The mower drive belt does not look like it is in the idler pulleys correctly. If nothing else loosen the mower drive belt and see what is stopping it from turning. It is not a pto problem I don't think.

 

Garry

Agree. The problem is the deck itself or the belt connection from the deck to the PTO. Or both.

[953 nut 51,720]

10 minutes ago, Crmaverick said:

locked from rust?

 

               If the PTO spins freely while the engine is running and not engaged it should be fine.

[Pullstart 59,732]

There is a small brake for when not in use.  

[rayshorses 102]

Its hard to tell but It looks like both parts of the belt are on the flat idler pully at the mule drive.

[Crmaverick 91]

25 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

The mower drive belt does not look like it is in the idler pulleys correctly. If nothing else loosen the mower drive belt and see what is stopping it from turning. It is not a pto problem I don't think.

 

Garry

Does this help show if it’s hooked up wrong? 

[Crmaverick 91]

I think it’s weird that two belts are in the same pulley. I loosened the mule drive and pto spins to.

 

Has to be those belts in that one pulley now that I’m Looking at it closer 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Crmaverick

[rayshorses 102]

As i suspected , starting at the pto , thread the belt flat side up over the left pulley on the mule drive , and return it on the flat pulley flat side down . do it in a fashion so the belt is not crossing itself . Basically , just move the left side section onto the grooved pulley and it should work .

[Handy Don 10,606]

The gadget that turns the belt down to the deck is called a mule.

Note that the two pulleys in the mule have different shaped grooves.

One receives the V side of the PTO-to-deck belt and one receives the flat side.

Belt from over the top of the PTO goes into the V pulley toward the center of the tractor

Belt from under the bottom of the PTO goes into the flat side pulley

Then tighten the mule using the big knob on the front

 

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Handy Don

[Crmaverick 91]

3 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

The gadget that turns the belt down to the deck is called a mule.

Note that the two pulleys in the mule have different shaped grooves.

One receives the V side of the PTO-to-deck pulley and one receives the flat side.

Belt from over the top of the PTO goes into the V pulley toward the center of the tractor

Belt from under the bottom of the PTO goes into the flat side pulley

Then tighten the mule using the big knob on the front

 

 

 Awesome that’s an easy fix, thanks guys 

[oliver2-44 8,852]

As part of servicing your new to you tractor, it would be a good time to clean and regrease the bearing inside the PTO bell.  First adjust the front mule drive to get maximum slack in the belt. Then you can remove the PTO bell easily by undoing the clips that hold the silver hoop in place.  You will also have to loosen the little PTO brake pad if it has one. Then the PTO bell will slide off as you work the belt off the pulley.  Once the PTO is off,  wipe the old grease from the inside with a clean rag.  ( I don't like to use solvent as the front bearing is sealed and don't want to wash it out)  Apply a good thin coating of wheel bearing grease to the long needle bearing inside the bell.  Also clean the bearing race that stayed on the engine pulley with solvent and wipe a thin layer of grease on it.  Don't put too much grease or it will sling everywhere.  Just a thin layer on all parts. 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,499]

[Crmaverick 91]

2 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

As part of servicing your new to you tractor, it would be a good time to clean and regrease the bearing inside the PTO bell.  First adjust the front mule drive to get maximum slack in the belt. Then you can remove the PTO bell easily by undoing the clips that hold the silver hoop in place.  You will also have to loosen the little PTO brake pad if it has one. Then the PTO bell will slide off as you work the belt off the pulley.  Once the PTO is off,  wipe the old grease from the inside with a clean rag.  ( I don't like to use solvent as the front bearing is sealed and don't want to wash it out)  Apply a good thin coating of wheel bearing grease to the long needle bearing inside the bell.  Also clean the bearing race that stayed on the engine pulley with solvent and wipe a thin layer of grease on it.  Don't put too much grease or it will sling everywhere.  Just a thin layer on all parts. 

Good idea so do these need to have the PTO brake pad or can that be left off?

 

Also besides greasing pulleys, all fittings, and fluid change is it a good idea to pull the head off

and clean the piston and valves? And maybe scotch brite the cylinder if it’s glazed?  

[Ed Kennell 35,787]

                                                 Be aware you will probably have to  remove the pulley belt guard to move the belt to the vee pulley.

[oliver2-44 8,852]

Also if you happen to remove the mule drive pulleys mark the spacers, they are slightly different widths. 
 

On a new to me tractor if I have to pull the carb for cleaning I typically:

1. Pull the head, decarbon And sand head flat using 200,320,400 wet/dry paper on a piece of glass.  Also decal on top of block and piston
2. Remove breather, pull valves throughly decarbon including stem area. Lap valves, reinstall and check/adjust clearances. 
3 If you have access to precision measurement tools Measure the cylinder bore for future reference. 

I’ve never deglazed a cylinder with scotch brute or with the piston in place. I’m interested to hear what others say about this. I learn something here everyday. 
 

 

[953 nut 51,720]

7 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

I’ve never deglazed a cylinder with scotch brute or with the piston in place. I’m interested to hear what others say about this. I learn something here everyday. 

             Something I've never seen done and doubt it will be beneficial.

[Crmaverick 91]

18 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

Also if you happen to remove the mule drive pulleys mark the spacers, they are slightly different widths. 
 

On a new to me tractor if I have to pull the carb for cleaning I typically:

1. Pull the head, decarbon And sand head flat using 200,320,400 wet/dry paper on a piece of glass.  Also decal on top of block and piston
2. Remove breather, pull valves throughly decarbon including stem area. Lap valves, reinstall and check/adjust clearances. 
3 If you have access to precision measurement tools Measure the cylinder bore for future reference. 

I’ve never deglazed a cylinder with scotch brute or with the piston in place. I’m interested to hear what others say about this. I learn something here everyday. 
 

 

swapped the belt over to the other pulley and it works perfect.

 

What’s the purpose of that brake pad installed on the pto clutch? Is it alright to run it without it?  

[953 nut 51,720]

1 hour ago, Crmaverick said:

swapped the belt over to the other pulley and it works perfect.

 

What’s the purpose of that brake pad installed on the pto clutch? Is it alright to run it without it?  

             If you run without the brake pad the PTO will spin without a load while disengaged, not the end of the world!

[lynnmor 6,780]

3 hours ago, Crmaverick said:

 

What’s the purpose of that brake pad installed on the pto clutch? Is it alright to run it without it?  

 

The idea is to stop the mower from rotating with the PTO disengaged.  I find that the brake works poorly at best.  To adjust, engage the PTO with the engine off and move the pad till you have .012" clearance.  Check after the bolts are tightened and try again, and again, and again, and again, then give up.

[Crmaverick 91]

14 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

 

The idea is to stop the mower from rotating with the PTO disengaged.  I find that the brake works poorly at best.  To adjust, engage the PTO with the engine off and move the pad till you have .012" clearance.  Check after the bolts are tightened and try again, and again, and again, and again, then give up.

Yeah probably not even going to bother messing with it and putting it back on honestly lol 

[Handy Don 10,606]

1 hour ago, lynnmor said:

 

The idea is to stop the mower from rotating with the PTO disengaged.  I find that the brake works poorly at best.  To adjust, engage the PTO with the engine off and move the pad till you have .012" clearance.  Check after the bolts are tightened and try again, and again, and again, and again, then give up.

Not disagreeing, but I like having it--it feels safer not to have something spinning when off the tractor. YMMV

I use a piece of single layer cardboard as the spacer. Gently tighten the bolts, insert spacer, tap brake toward the engine with a wood block until it barely holds the spacer, tighten bolts (this usually pulls the brake tighter), wiggle the spacer out (or start engine and engage PTO and watch it disintegrate ). After practice, I get it in one, usually. Just my 2¢

[oliver2-44 8,852]

Sorry I’ve been out of pocket helping my son move, but as always plenty of people got you taken care of on here. 

[Pullstart 59,732]

On 1/13/2021 at 10:45 PM, Handy Don said:

Not disagreeing, but I like having it--it feels safer not to have something spinning when off the tractor. YMMV

I use a piece of single layer cardboard as the spacer. Gently tighten the bolts, insert spacer, tap brake toward the engine with a wood block until it barely holds the spacer, tighten bolts (this usually pulls the brake tighter), wiggle the spacer out (or start engine and engage PTO and watch it disintegrate ). After practice, I get it in one, usually. Just my 2¢

My grandfather (right or wrong) taught me to use a spark plug box to set the gap on a Briggs engine...

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

1 hour ago, pullstart said:

My grandfather (right or wrong) taught me to use a spark plug box to set the gap on a Briggs engine...

An old trick , back then, if it worked, it worked.