A Tecumseh Tale

[Tractorhead 8,612]

You‘re right, they go to Coil ends an to ground.

from this 1. winding the coil begins to be spun arround up to last winding.

this are two one Way rectifying coils, each coil has it‘s own diode.

If both coils work again, they will work with phase shift both to a smoothened DC result.

 

 

you can use that coils as templates for the new coils you will rewind,  

your coils looking exact the way as i thought, they also seems to be shot somwhere in the middle.

coil shortcut somewhere internally.

 

On this coils you can see, how they shall be wound, to fit again on the Charging system.

Build a lowspeed Charging Coil is not at all A miracle as @Handy Don allready mentioned, especially in low speed charging systems.

Things changes a bit if coils will be used for Audio tasks or in highspeed things but that‘s completely another thing.

 

 

 

 

 

Btw:

If you begin with „@„  @Gregor you will set a notice to a other person -

After that a display occurs while writing to find quicker the name you try to contact. 

 

 

[Gregor 4,838]

I ordered the 28 AWG wire. We'll see what happens. I am keeping my eye out for another complete magneto assembly. I will contact Lincoln at A to Z , it;s possible he may have one.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Gregor

[wallfish 15,939]

3 hours ago, Gregor said:

Seems he had a Tecumseh motor laying around somewhere, so guess what I came home with.

Oh No!

LoL

[Gregor 4,838]

"Stupid is as stupid does"

 

Never quite understood that phrase, until now.

[AMC RULES 36,948]

As much as we like to rewrite our history in this country, not every W-H model left the factory with a Kohler engine installed.  

Not so stupid to keep at least one example of the factory correct W-H history alive.  

[WHNJ701 4,164]

Maybe as I am getting older and more educated mechanically I am starting be more accepting to the horizontal tech engines.  The toro snowblower is a beast and run that thing like as hard as I can and that tech runs strong, the com 6 with a tech repower, very reliable engine.  The lauson on the 551, once I got educated and understood it one my favorites.  My annoyance with tech engines came from the old push mowers, tvs engines etc.. 

Can say that once your carb is dialed in, put the tools down and don't touch it again. That and old tech parts are getting harder and more expensive.  Sadly thats why I made the decision to yank the hh120 out of the 68 Sears and it's getting a predator repower.  I really don't want to sink any money into it.  

[Gregor 4,838]

35 minutes ago, jabelman said:

 

Can say that once your carb is dialed in, put the tools down and don't touch it again.

OOPS ! Should have read this 20 minutes ago. With some spare time on my hands, I decided to install a Kohler Style 13 carb on the H70 just for kicks. It's not quite as simple as good ole Norman makes it out to be. I had to grind down a 1/4-28 nut to make it thinner, Without some modification, the air cleaner won't go back on. I'll let you know how it works out.

[Gregor 4,838]

That was a complete disaster! I never did get it to start. I'm sure if someone who really knew carburetors messed with it, they could make it work. Not me. Suffice it to say I won't be trying that again, anytime soon.

 

On another note, I wanted to take another look at my charging coils. Didn't find anything helpful, and it still doesn't work, but....  While I was in there anyway, I decided to change my timing. OH NO, you say.....Oh yes! The motor always started, but not real well. Seemed to take a lot of cranking. I changed my timing from .080 BTDC, to .075 BTDC. Now it starts will barely a spin. 9hope it stays that way) That seemed to work out well.

 

 This is what I found on my new starter.That's the little dust cover cap on the end of the bendix. It's all chewed up. Are those not suppose to stay on there? I guess that's why in all the tractors I've done, that little cap is gone. This is the pinion gear meshing with the ring gear, It catches enough to turn the motor, but not by much. I guess a bit more modifying is in order.

[Handy Don 10,652]

1 minute ago, Gregor said:

I guess a bit more modifying is in order.

For sure! Looks like a recipe for stripped gears until you can get them a bit more engaged.

[Tractorhead 8,612]

Yap, that cover must removed.

I did the same mistake, but forget you to mention to remove it, sorry.

 

My pinion gear fits much closer to the ring gear than yours, yours seems very far away.

may be it appears further on the picture, but so it will not last very long.

 

 

 

 

[Gregor 4,838]

This is gooder me thinks.

[Gregor 4,838]

Just for fun, I decided to install the recoil starter. Still not easy to pull from that angle, but started on the 3rd pull. I think this motor will go back on the 656, even if the charging coil never works. Like my other rebuilt tractors, it will probably only be ran 5 or 6 times a year, just to take it out and play with. Now, what to do do with that Kohler K161?

[ebinmaine 63,266]

@Gregor we have a non charging engine on Trina's Pony tractor, 867... For now. Just charge the battery every 2 or 3 months. No worries. 

 

So that little K engine.... Yeah Bud.... Uhh yer gonna need another tractor. 

[Gregor 4,838]

SSSSHHH    My wife is here.

[ebinmaine 63,266]

1 minute ago, Gregor said:

SSSSHHH    My wife is here.

Sorry Sir. 

 

So Mrs Gregor! How's things?

No no no we didn't tell him to buy another tractor!!

 

Actor. I said actor. 

 

[Tractorhead 8,612]

No more comment‘s need i guess.. 😂😎

[Gregor 4,838]

@Tractorhead I read your post, Bavarian Wheel Horse, and I read through this one several times, on rewinding the coils. I hope I have this right. I first need wire, have that, I need a 1/2 X1/2 dowel of some sort to wrap the wire around, have that. Some cardboard to wrap around the dowel first, have that. Some kind of epoxy to seal  the coil when it's done, have that. When the coil is complete, and ready to install, does the cardboard stay in place? Do the BEGINNING ends of each coil get screwed to case ground? Do the TAIL ends of each coil wire, get a wire soldered on, to run to the rectifier board? Sorry for all the questions, Id just like to get this right. Although I do have 1 pound of wire, so I guess I can try a few times.

 

I also read where you used your 3-D printer to make a mold. Wait until Mrs. Gregor finds out I have to buy a 3-D printer!

[Tractorhead 8,612]

6 hours ago, Gregor said:

@Tractorhead I read your post, Bavarian Wheel Horse, and I read through this one several times, on rewinding the coils. I hope I have this right. I first need wire, have that, I need a 1/2 X1/2 dowel of some sort to wrap the wire around, have that. Some cardboard to wrap around the dowel first, have that. Some kind of epoxy to seal  the coil when it's done, have that. When the coil is complete, and ready to install, does the cardboard stay in place? Do the BEGINNING ends of each coil get screwed to case ground? Do the TAIL ends of each coil wire, get a wire soldered on, to run to the rectifier board? Sorry for all the questions, Id just like to get this right. Although I do have 1 pound of wire, so I guess I can try a few times.

 

I also read where you used your 3-D printer to make a mold. Wait until Mrs. Gregor finds out I have to buy a 3-D printer!

 

Hahaha, a perfect reason to tell Mrs. Gregor you need urgently a 3-D Printer.. 😎

 

I didn‘t screwed the Coils end on the Engine mount point directly to ground,

My reason was i like to be able to play with them for measure purposes in the Dashboard, where i have my Rectifier/ Regulator mounted.

With the Coils mounted Ground free, i have them electrical independently and can use different regulators like i wanna do.

 

1. yes, the Cardboard will be kept as insulating distance to protect the Coilwindings from any sharp scratching Metal.

    even by rattling of the Engine or other reasons. Secur the mounted coil with few dribbs loctite middletight.

 

2. I don‘t use the diodes further, i use instead a cheap motocycle (china scooter) regulator for 3$ 

     They be long term available and extremely cheap and will charge the battery better than just 2 Diodes.

     On the Diodes the voltage restriction exists only up to a fully charged battery

3. This cheapo regulators can also handle much higher input Voltages, so you can improve the Charging coils with a lots windings more, to result in higher Voltage ranges. That give you the Benefit it will charging the battery even on idle while Lights is on.

 

     use a few cm heatshrink on First tap and remove the solderpoint at least few cm 2-3 far from the Coil.

A reason therefore is, Coil will heats up on higher Loads up to Maximum Load so the Wire have enough blown Air to cool down without            desoldering themself.

 

 

The diodes are the cheapest rectifier/ charging option, but there have few dis,  i don’t want to deal with.

1. The max. Voltage on diodes after rectifying should not go over 14,4V on full throttle 

    otherwise on longer trails with high rpm the battery chan be overcharged and maybe damaged because of that.

2. with the right Windings to reach 14,4 on full throttle, on idle you have nearly no charge, because Voltage is too low on lower RPM.

3 When not grounded the system will allway‘s charge, even with a Weak Engineground on whatever Reason.

4. with a groundless Coil different regulators can simply be used, you can choose how it be connected.

5. if the Wires not on the original point be grounded, you have later the ability without removing the Flywheel again 

    changing over to a external regulator you like to have, or It is still the diode version usable, it just will be grounded on the Dash.

 

Yap you will make it !

 

if you rewind and you like to use a cheapo china scooter regulator, i would recommend wind it to at least 78 WDGS. or better more.

The more Windings, the better the Charge in idle.

 

Oh, forgot,

you can tell her i was guilty, to sent you for an 3D Printer.. hahahaha, i can life with.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Tractorhead

[Gregor 4,838]

My first attempt at wing a coil was less the perfect, to say the least. I have modified my winding tool a bit, the next attempt might be better. The wire I have is much bigger than what is on it now. The new wire measures, .83 mm. The old wire measures, .56 mm. Maybe I need smaller wire. The shims on my coils were mostly in crumbled pieces. I may try to replace them, and reinstall the old coils. Here is a pic of my old coils.They don't look that bad to me.

 

In this pic, is there a small diode or something under that shrink wrap? I hope not, because there isn't a diode within 40 miles of me.

Anyway, I will try winding another one. With this size wire, the coils are much bigger than the originals. Should I get smaller wire? Should I do less then 135 wraps?  Thanks  Greg

[Tractorhead 8,612]

I use actually 2 different coils.

the first Coil 0,5 mm i built was with 78 windings if i remember right 

(have to verify, don’t remember actual, but i wrote it in my Thread)

This Starts charging at little higher idle when light are on, without lights it charges also in idle.

 

The last light coil i built was with 1mm Wire also have to look how much Windings but as far as i remember i used 96 Windings,

what was able to deliver easy 14,4V and it fits in diameter - just a little bit bigger than the original.

 

Mine are also bit wobbly, that‘s normal if you wind them by hand.

normally the be wound in machines with a definite prespaned Wire.

 

if you keep the wire little prespaned, if gets better, first row is the hardest to wind, the rest have a form they will nearly fit.

The more you come to the outside on Winding, the more you can built it a little thicker at least, because there is more space.

 

The max. Of diameter is restricted by your stator Metal sheet, where this Coil should sit later on.

It also should not be thicker than the Magneto coil in diameter, or it can be scratching on the Flywheel.

 

Give it a Try with 98 Wdgs. Should work.

 

few tips for Winding:

 

1. try to wind continousely and peel the alignment with finder to the smalles gap you can do.

2. Never remove the wire before from it spender roll, use it and turn your coil.

3. Keep wire allway‘s prespaned, but not too hard.

4. When you turn the last winding in first row, try to save that base - before you do the last turn and jump to the next row with a drop of superglue. That safed you first row just in case you sliped on the next row.

Copperwires don‘t like it to be bent, so allway‘s keep the wire straight as possible, the more easy it becomes to wind it.

if needed try to break the spender spool on a stick what is wrapped with cloths - old (but washed) Socks or similar

 

if no washed socks available, never smell you finger after.. 😂😂😂 before washed Hands...

 

oh, forgotten about your Coils..

i see green copperoxyde in the pict ( left coil) that coil is done.

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Tractorhead

[Tractorhead 8,612]

I know you will manage this task Bud.

the thicker the Wire, the more Current you can earn.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Tractorhead

[Gregor 4,838]

I wrapped another one. About 100 wraps I think. I put glue on it, and will let the glue set over night, and remove it from the spool tomorrow, I'm not sure my eyes and hands are up to this task, bit I have nothing to lose by trying, and I have lots of wire.

[Tractorhead 8,612]

Sounds great, curious to see you result and interesting what it results in the Engine.

 

by a 100 turns it should be nearly enough to exchange your both old Coils.

With 0.83mm It will results in about 3,5-4Amps of Shortcut Current and shall be good enough to charge even on idle.

when you use just a single Coil, you just need one diode on the Engine when they work against ground.

 

i would recommanding solder both taps on Wires bring them up to the Diode box side ( wirepath under the Starter)

and check it with a Voltmeter in AC setting.

cusious what you meter tells.

 

congrats.

[Gregor 4,838]

BTW.  if no washed socks available, never smell you finger after.. 😂😂😂 before washed Hands...   You wash socks in Germany? You foreigners....sheesh.

[Gregor 4,838]

The second attempt, while better than the first, still needs improvement. I think I may need smaller wire, but will try again. It will not fit on the laminate unit.