Fuel Pump for 314-8

[hotajax 226]

Most times, when I start it up after it's been sitting for a week it takes a while for fuel to make it from the tank to the carb. Estimate is probably 10 seconds or so, worse if it was sitting for two weeks.  That's a lot of drain on the battery.  Once fuel gets to the carb and it is running, the fuel pump seems fine and there is plenty of gas to mow and go up hills.  So my question to the guys who know way more than me is if the fuel pump might be showing sign of old age.  After market pumps are reasonably priced.  Is it time for this pump to take a trip to the dumpster?  Thanks in advance.  Kohler Engine.K321S

Edited April 3, 2020 by hotajax

[pfrederi 18,685]

That is a common problem for underseat fuel tank tractors   Some work OK others take forever to start after sitting.  Solutions cheap to expensive...check valve, squeeze bulb primer pump. rebuild kit for yo r pump (if it is a metal one)  good quality electric (Facet), or Kohler mechanical pump.  (Note I did not mention after market mechanical or electric.  I want something reliable)

[The Tuul Crib 7,339]

Stay away from the cheap Chinese. Mechanical

ones. They are no good. I went with an electric pump and instant starts every time.

[hotajax 226]

16 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

That is a common problem for underseat fuel tank tractors   Some work OK others take forever to start after sitting.  Solutions cheap to expensive...check valve, squeeze bulb primer pump. rebuild kit for yo r pump (if it is a metal one)  good quality electric (Facet), or Kohler mechanical pump.  (Note I did not mention after market mechanical or electric.  I want something reliable)

 

Pfrederi:  It is a plastic chinese pump. 

[hotajax 226]

7 minutes ago, The Tool Crib said:

Stay away from the cheap Chinese. Mechanical

ones. They are no good. I went with an electric pump and instant starts every time.

 

Tool Crib:  Where to do you get the electric pump?  And how is it wired?

[pfrederi 18,685]

5 minutes ago, hotajax said:

 

Pfrederi:  It is a plastic chinese pump. 

  Are you saying the pump on your tractor is a chinese after market.  (Kohler started using plastic pumps several years ago)  they are good just pricey

 

I use facet posiflo

 

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/solidstatepump.php

 

[The Tuul Crib 7,339]

6 minutes ago, hotajax said:

 

Tool Crib:  Where to do you get the electric pump?  And how is it wired?

I wired mine up to the ignition switch .

l went with the one @pfrederi and others 

use and l am very pleased with it. It is 

a bit more expensive (around 35) but itsworth  it.

 

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by The Tool Crib

[hotajax 226]

2 minutes ago, The Tool Crib said:

I wired mine up to the ignition switch .

l went with the one @pfrederi and others 

use and l am very pleased with it. It is 

a bit more expensive (around 35) but itsworth  it.

 

 

Gents, I just looked at the pump at Aircraft Spruce.  I don't believe it will drop right in where the old pump came from.  So how did you mount yours?  Thanks.

 

[pfrederi 18,685]

Low and back by the fuel tank.  Pumps push better than they pull.

[hotajax 226]

6 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

  Are you saying the pump on your tractor is a chinese after market.  (Kohler started using plastic pumps several years ago)  they are good just pricey

 

I use facet posiflo

 

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/solidstatepump.php

 

Yes, it's Chinese aftermarket.  I like theidea of electric pump if I knew where to mount it.  Not a lot of room "under the hood"

[hotajax 226]

12 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Low and back by the fuel tank.  Pumps push better than they pull.

 

So the pump comes right off the tank and pushes all the fuel forward to the carb?

 

What did you do close off the hole on the engine block where the original fuel pump was situated?  Or, did you just leave it there with nothing hooked up to it?

 

Did you drill holes through the sheet metal to mount the pump?

 

I see the Facet pump has threaded female fittings for the fuel line.  Where do you get the male portion to screw into it, and does the male portion have a barb on it?  Thanks again.  Hot Ajax

Edited April 3, 2020 by hotajax

[pfrederi 18,685]

Mounted eh pumps on the inside of the seat support.  Used one existing hole drilled one more.  This will not work if you have a rock shaft setup for a tiller.  .  you can leave the old pump inplace or make a cover plate.

[hotajax 226]

Last question ( I think  or I hope ):  I found some fuel elbows that look like they will screw into the pump.  They are 90 degree elblows .  Is that what you used?  Thanks for answering these questions. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by hotajax

[pfrederi 18,685]

My mounting used straight barbs...

[hotajax 226]

8 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

My mounting used straight barbs...

OK, I found some of those.  I just didn't know what they were called.  Jeez, even Wally world carries them.  Thanks for helping out.  JF

 

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by hotajax

[skrusins 128]

I have a 314H with the same problem. 3 yrs.ago I put an electric fuel uder the seat with a off and on switch. I turn it on to get it started and shut it off after it starts no more problems. 

[hotajax 226]

4 hours ago, skrusins said:

I have a 314H with the same problem. 3 yrs.ago I put an electric fuel uder the seat with a off and on switch. I turn it on to get it started and shut it off after it starts no more problems. 

 

Where did you mount it?  In the same space where the tank is, or on the pan above the tank?  Isn't it easier to route the wiring from the same area where the tank is?  I like the sound of this set up.  Like an airplane - gets shut off once the engine is humming.  Thank you.

Edited April 4, 2020 by hotajax

[Rob R 973]

My two cents like to stay OEM and adding an electric pump is fine but to me just adds another point of failure and drain on the battery etc. ..... just add a simple marine in line fuel hand pump two gentle pumps after the machine has been sitting all winter and it will start right up end of issue...… just saying...… p.s. the hand pump has and internal check valve so once you do this the line stays charged for a long period of time. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by Rob R

[hotajax 226]

2 hours ago, Rob R said:

My two cents like to stay OEM and adding an electric pump is fine but to me just adds another point of failure and drain on the battery etc. ..... just add a simple marine in line fuel hand pump two gentle pumps after the machine has been sitting all winter and it will start right up end of issue...… just saying...… p.s. the hand pump has and internal check valve so once you do this the line stays charged for a long period of time. 

 

 

Thanks, Rob.  Can't beat simplicity.  And never a risk of a battery drain.  Very cool. 

 

PS:  What's with your motor-mouth governor? 

Edited April 4, 2020 by hotajax

[tom2p 2,394]

On 4/3/2020 at 1:31 PM, hotajax said:

Most times, when I start it up after it's been sitting for a week it takes a while for fuel to make it from the tank to the carb. Estimate is probably 10 seconds or so, worse if it was sitting for two weeks.  That's a lot of drain on the battery.  Once fuel gets to the carb and it is running, the fuel pump seems fine and there is plenty of gas to mow and go up hills.  So my question to the guys who know way more than me is if the fuel pump might be showing sign of old age.  After market pumps are reasonably priced.  Is it time for this pump to take a trip to the dumpster?  Thanks in advance.  Kohler Engine.K321S

again - I must be in the minority - but I don't see a big problem with this 

 

extra 6 or 8 seconds (or whatever ) cranking should not impact the battery or starter much - unless one or both are suspect 

 

and it might be of some benefit - it's possible during cranking the oil will get to areas that don't have an appreciable amount of oil after sitting for an extended period of time ... sort of like priming 

 

our tractors have exhibited this since the day we got them - including a 312-8 and 416-H we've had since late 90's / early 2000's

 

[CCW 1,379]

30 minutes ago, tom2p said:

again - I must be in the minority - but I don't see a big problem with this 

 

extra 6 or 8 seconds (or whatever ) cranking should not impact the battery or starter much - unless one or both are suspect 

 

and it might be of some benefit - it's possible during cranking the oil will get to areas that don't have an appreciable amount of oil after sitting for an extended period of time ... sort of like priming 

 

our tractors have exhibited this since the day we got them - including a 312-8 and 416-H we've had since late 90's / early 2000's

 

 

Not entirely alone, but yes most likely in minority.  My '89 312-8 does this as well, but always starts.  Bigger problem is battery sitting and not getting charged enough.  I have to remove it and keep it on a trickle charger if the tractor is sitting for a long spell.

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by CCW

[tom2p 2,394]

18 minutes ago, CCW said:

 

Not entirely alone, but yes most likely in minority.  My '89 312-8 does this as well, but always starts.  Bigger problem is battery sitting and not getting charged enough.  I have to remove it and keep it on a trickle charger if the tractor is sitting for a long spell.

 

up until recently we used Sears Diehard batteries in just about everything - and had outstanding  service from them 

Cars - trucks - muscle cars - tractors 

 

could sit for months in an unheated garage - and still crank well 

 

no more Diehard - so now trying Duracell batteries (made by Deka ?) ... 

 

 

even if/when I install an electric pump I will probably still continue to crank for a few seconds without choke before applying the choke 

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by tom2p

[pfrederi 18,685]

2 hours ago, tom2p said:

again - I must be in the minority - but I don't see a big problem with this 

 

extra 6 or 8 seconds (or whatever ) cranking should not impact the battery or starter much - unless one or both are suspect 

 

and it might be of some benefit - it's possible during cranking the oil will get to areas that don't have an appreciable amount of oil after sitting for an extended period of time ... sort of like priming 

 

our tractors have exhibited this since the day we got them - including a 312-8 and 416-H we've had since late 90's / early 2000's

 

  On some of these under seat tank units it is not 6 or 8 seconds it is more like 30-40 seconds,  In January that is a big drag on even a healthy battery  or a no go on an a weaker one.,

[hotajax 226]

Agree with Pfred:  It takes so long sometimes that you can detect a noticeable reduction in the speed of the starter.  But to battle this, I keep a little smart charger on the battery, I think it's 3 amps.  It keeps the battery fully charged, and then in the winter months of non-use, I go out to the garage and start it up.  Go get a gallon of milk and shut it off when I get back.  Reattach the smart charger and forget about it for a week.  This also prevents the formation of gum and varnish in the fuel system.

Edited April 5, 2020 by hotajax

[tom2p 2,394]

 

30-40 seconds of cranking  possibly and probably indicates a bad fuel pump ...  ? ... and/or something else going on ... ? ... 

 

I don't think I've ever had to crank a Kohler that long before it would fire - maybe not even one that sat for months (maybe 9 months ?)