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cschannuth

Fun and Trouble w/C-161

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cschannuth

The boys bought a shed with a gravel floor that needed to be smoothed a bit before they started filling it with their stuff.   That was the fun part. The trouble is my trouble free 42 year old twin Briggs I brag on every chance I get needs a starter. It’s been sounding rough for a while but it’s done. I’ve done some searching and I have the manual but I’m hoping someone can point me toward the right starter. Thanks in advance. 3144B81F-203A-4FEB-BB92-FEBE499B669D.jpeg.1e4f61873108ae556face9b4bd89d2f4.jpeg

 

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Pullstart

I am of no help, but is that a steel fender pan on there?  Looks tough!

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WildmanC120

Nice 161.  Mine has unfortunately turned into a 300/400 series as i had to mod it to fit a 2 stage blower. 

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Stepney

What model is your engine? if it's anything like my WorkHorse 1848 I can check for the part number .. do try and find an OEM or NOS unit. Every B&S opposed I tried a cheap starter on failed quickly.

Oh on that note. You sure the starter is bad? Seen the nylon gears fail too many times and bind.

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cschannuth
1 hour ago, pullstart said:

I am of no help, but is that a steel fender pan on there?  Looks tough!


Yes, dad bought it when it was a year old from our neighbor who broke the original fender and my dad couldn’t stand that so he put a steel seat pan on it when he got it a little over 40 years ago. 

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cschannuth
1 hour ago, Stepney said:

What model is your engine? if it's anything like my WorkHorse 1848 I can check for the part number .. do try and find an OEM or NOS unit. Every B&S opposed I tried a cheap starter on failed quickly.

Oh on that note. You sure the starter is bad? Seen the nylon gears fail too many times and bind.


Now that you mention it it might be the gear but I really don’t have any experience with the starter or the starter gear. It sounds like the starter is spinning quickly like it always has but nothing is grabbing to turn the engine over.

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ebinmaine
7 hours ago, cschannuth said:


Now that you mention it it might be the gear but I really don’t have any experience with the starter or the starter gear. It sounds like the starter is spinning quickly like it always has but nothing is grabbing to turn the engine over.

Pop it off and check the gear.

I've had an 8 hp Briggs lose half the gear. I was able to flip it and get it running temporary like..

 

 

Also post a  pic.

 

Likely not the same thing but I have a starter off an unknown Briggs in the shed.

 

@Stepney will absolutely get you on the right track.

 

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cschannuth
54 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Pop it off and check the gear.

I've had an 8 hp Briggs lose half the gear. I was able to flip it and get it running temporary like..

 

 

Also post a  pic.

 

Likely not the same thing but I have a starter off an unknown Briggs in the shed.

 

@Stepney will absolutely get you on the right track.

 


Thanks.  That starter looks tough to get to so I’ll have to dig in to it when I get some time. Helping the boys move their stuff from my shed to theirs this weekend. Haha. 

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cschannuth
9 hours ago, Stepney said:

What model is your engine? if it's anything like my WorkHorse 1848 I can check for the part number .. do try and find an OEM or NOS unit. Every B&S opposed I tried a cheap starter on failed quickly.

Oh on that note. You sure the starter is bad? Seen the nylon gears fail too many times and bind.

As I search the Internet it looks like the same starter was used on the 14, 16, and 18 hp twin Briggs. And they all seem to come with an extra starter gear which I thought was a little bit odd. I’m going to try to dig into that thing over the next few days. Hopefully I can get to the mounting bolts by removing the hood so I can pull it and see what is going on.

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Stepney

The starter is a total pain to work with. There were metal and plastic gears, so it likely comes with both and just 1 for your application. Sounds like your gear failed. Not a great design on. B&S's part. 
Thats good news though, since new OEM starters are pricy..

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bds1984

I love the big Briggs twins like yours!  They are a very underrated engine in most circles.  In the late 90s my dad had the ring gear on ours strip out and behave like you had said.  The starter-motor was fine and the machine was up and running after a quick install of a metal gear.  But as Eric said, flip the gear around, if you can, to get you going again.  

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cschannuth
On 3/13/2020 at 9:54 PM, Stepney said:

What model is your engine? if it's anything like my WorkHorse 1848 I can check for the part number .. do try and find an OEM or NOS unit. Every B&S opposed I tried a cheap starter on failed quickly.

Oh on that note. You sure the starter is bad? Seen the nylon gears fail too many times and bind.


This is the information off of my engine. When I go to specific Briggs sites there are usually two starters shown but I’m not sure which would be appropriate for this model. 

Model 401417 type 0130 01
date 780 32212

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ebinmaine
23 hours ago, cschannuth said:


This is the information off of my engine. When I go to specific Briggs sites there are usually two starters shown but I’m not sure which would be appropriate for this model. 

Model 401417 type 0130 01
date 780 32212

Just for kicks I'll look at the one I've got on the shelf

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pfrederi

Starter motor should be 393017  Pinion Gear is 280104

 

 

401400-ms6930-1279.pdf

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ebinmaine

Here's what I have.

 

 

IMG_20200316_155850474.jpg.c0a1a2d55ad59345cd0b3071af33a026.jpg

 

 

IMG_20200316_155841527.jpg.1744c12065665b23b9d424fb7f9de7d3.jpg

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cschannuth

OK, Gents I was able to track down an OEM Briggs starter so I just decided to replace the whole unit. That sounds simple but after pulling this apart, as I’m sure some of you already know, I have to remove the fly wheel to get to one of the bolts on the starter. I was able to get the nut off without an issue but the fly will self is very tight on the shaft. Is there a trick to removing this or is there an easier way to remove the starter bolts?  Thank you so much for your assistance.

AF88275E-11C3-455F-BB9A-4A4CAE257DF0.jpeg.d8c4a57098f03937aa6162c1345dced7.jpeg

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cschannuth
On 3/16/2020 at 4:21 PM, ebinmaine said:

Here's what I have.

 

 

IMG_20200316_155850474.jpg.c0a1a2d55ad59345cd0b3071af33a026.jpg

 

 

IMG_20200316_155841527.jpg.1744c12065665b23b9d424fb7f9de7d3.jpg

Eric, thank you so much but I just saw this. It doesn’t look like it’s quite the right match anyway but I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your thoughtfulness.

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ebinmaine
5 minutes ago, cschannuth said:

Eric, thank you so much but I just saw this. It doesn’t look like it’s quite the right match anyway but I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your thoughtfulness.

No worries.

We're all in this together...

 

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ebinmaine

Is that a flywheel that requires a puller?

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cschannuth
1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

Is that a flywheel that requires a puller?


Yes sir. I assumed it needed a puller of some sort but I don’t know that I have anything. It has two threaded holes on either side of the shaft so it looks like it’s set up for a puller of some sort.  I might be able to rig something up with a couple of bolts and a piece of steel and a center bolt but I don’t want to tear anything up because I’m not familiar enough with this sort of thing.

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ebinmaine

Is there a manual available for the engine?

That'd likely show how to properly remove it.

 

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cschannuth

I'm still looking for one but I'm sure there is.

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pfrederi

MY Briggs manuals are only for singles.  if you have to pull the flywheel You might be able to borrow a timing gear puller from an auto parts store or as you said make one up.  You usually just need to put some tension on it then whack the center pusher bolt with a BFH Wheel usual pops off.

 

 

IMG_0039.JPG

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cschannuth
17 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

MY Briggs manuals are only for singles.  if you have to pull the flywheel You might be able to borrow a timing gear puller from an auto parts store or as you said make one up.  You usually just need to put some tension on it then whack the center pusher bolt with a BFH Wheel usual pops off.

 

 

IMG_0039.JPG

That’s what I was hoping. Thanks!

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WVHillbilly520H
1 hour ago, cschannuth said:


Yes sir. I assumed it needed a puller of some sort but I don’t know that I have anything. It has two threaded holes on either side of the shaft so it looks like it’s set up for a puller of some sort.  I might be able to rig something up with a couple of bolts and a piece of steel and a center bolt but I don’t want to tear anything up because I’m not familiar enough with this sort of thing.

Craig try one of these ... https://www.harborfreight.com/Bolt-Type-Wheel-Puller-Set-62620.html. I have had similar el cheapos and they have stood up to some very stubborn harmonic crankshaft balancers then you'll have an extra tool in your Arsenal for other jobs as well... I hope you would believe an ole hillbilly? 

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