My Horse is Gurgling - Why? (video of issue)

[Tach-a-matic 357]

My new to me B-80 with a K181 idles perfectly but at 50%-100% throttle it has this annoying gurgle/flutter no matter how the main is adjusted. I have never seen this before and could use some assistance from the experts.  In the video I start out at what I believe is the ideal setting and then it gets worse with either a 1/4 turn out (richer) and a 1/4 turn in (leaner).  Even at the "sweet spot" the gurgle remains.

 

Things to know:

• Had not been running for a long time (20+yrs)
• New (Chinese) carb
• New Points/Condenser/Plug
• New Fuel 
• Engine is warmed up
• Haven't had the head off yet for a look-see 

 

What do you think?

 

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by Tach-a-matic

[Guest 88vic]

Almost sounds like a timing issue to me.

[The Tuul Crib 7,339]

 Sounds possibly like it needs a governor adjustment .

[ZXT 2,401]

Sounds to me like you either have an ignition issue or a sticky valve. Are you sure the points are adjusted correctly?

[pacer 3,177]

I think ZXT is the closest to prob --- ignition/firing causing a misfire. Points, condenser, spark plug, etc.

[JoeM 8,351]

One way I tell if the problem is carb or ignition is by testing with a cheap inline spark tester. I have had been fooled by thinking a carb problem and the ignition was faulty.

 

 

 

 

[Tractorhead 9,212]

I‘m in with spark troubles.

 

I would clean firstly the points, if your Engine have,

next clean Sparkplug connector and also the Sparkplug.

is the gap correct on sparkplug?

 

How looks the sparkplug itself?

Is it dark or close to black

or bright brown (similar to deer skin ) 

 

the optical inline check as @OILUJ52 suggested, 

is a pretty good tool to verify optical, if you solved you Problem.

[stevasaurus 23,281]

If the points are set at .020...which they should be...try setting them at .018.  The point gap determines the timing in these engines.

[Tach-a-matic 357]

thanks for the input fellas!

 

condenser and points are new oem Kohlers set at .020.

cleaned the points with a card and solvent

plug is new, gap is .025

ive got the same spark tester and its steady at all rpm

Set the timing via a strobe and when the idle picked up things were going in the right direction. 

 

But it still flutters at only 1/1 throttle

 

Since this is just a tow mule I can live with 3/4 throttle (it now runs clean there)

 

Might take the head off over the winter. Its gotta be a valve related

 

Im assuming the chinese carb is good as others have not reported any problems with it. 

 

Edited October 26, 2019 by Tach-a-matic

[squonk 43,843]

Try closing the choke some when it gurgles. If it straightens out some you know it's a tad lean

 

[Tach-a-matic 357]

In the quest to get this right I took the head off today to check things out.  The exhaust valve was a little tight (.010) so was hoping that was it.  Looks like it needs an intake seal too?

 

 

 

 

 

Ground down the exh valve a smidge, rechecked all clearances, cleaned everything up and put it back together.  

 

Guess what? 

 

It runs EXACTLY the same!!!!

 

My only thought left is something is wrong with the carburetor, or it just does not work with a 181.  

 

It's strange, if I go past 2 turns on the main it runs rich and gurgles. Under 2 turns and it gurgles the same and pops a little.  Yet with the air filter and its base plate off the carb and two fingers in the intake air stream (inducing a rich condition), and the gurgling goes away.  It doesn't make sense!  

 

I'm going to go the good old fashioned route now and REBUILD the existing carb and see what happens. I never ran it with it on because the float gasket was leaking like a sieve. And $15 chinese carbs are very enticing.  But maybe these universal "one size fits all" carbs work on the bigger K's but not this smaller ones (?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Tach-a-matic

[bc.gold 3,406]

On 10/25/2019 at 8:21 PM, ZXT said:

Sounds to me like you either have an ignition issue or a sticky valve. Are you sure the points are adjusted correctly?

 

My vote, sticky intake valve.

[Tach-a-matic 357]

Its as clean as a whistle from stem to face. If its a sticking valve its only if the valve is rocking/cocking in the guide. Anthing is possible on this old girl 

 

Gonna rebuild the carb and will report back next week.  

[Digger 66 3,488]

I'll throw my hat in the ring and say it sounds like it's getting un-metered air from somewhere .

Did you try spraying some starting fluid around the carb and listen for any RPM fluctuation ?

I did read that you put a Chinese carb on and after the experience I had with the one I bought for my 25 + Y/O Ryobi trimmer , I wouldn't trust one as far as I could throw it .

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Digger 66

[Tach-a-matic 357]

RIGHT ON DIGGER!!

 

As you were posting that I was swapping the bowl gasket and fuel inlet fitting from the new carb to the old carb, and installing it onto the tractor.  

 

 

BINGO!!!

 

She runs perfect now and there is no more weirdness. I haven't compared the two carbs but I'd guess there is something about the Chinese carb that just wont work with the K181 and smaller engines.  Or I got a dud.  Either way, no more Chinese carbs for me unless there is no other alternative.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Tach-a-matic

[troutbum70 858]

The link for your youtube video tells me I can't open it because its private. Have others experienced the same issue?

[Tach-a-matic 357]

Fixed!

 

(changed it from private to unlisted and posted a new link)

 

[troutbum70 858]

Okay thanks always open to learning new stuff.

[Digger 66 3,488]

Glad you're all up & running again .

 

But ... is that Teflon pipe tape on the inlet fitting ?

IDK if that's a good idea or not .

Personally I would have gone with a little Permatex 85420 Fuel Resistant Gasket Dressing & Sealant .

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Digger 66

[troutbum70 858]

The new link worked very well and and the engine sounds very healthy now.

[Tach-a-matic 357]

Im happy now!

 

However, an hour ago I smelled raw fuel in the garage (know that smell?) and noticed the fuel pump was leaking at the diaphram,...

 

 

Unlike a newer Horse that has the tank under the seat, this setup here never made much sense to me since 95% of the fuel tank is above the carb inlet

 

 

So until the pump is replaced it is now going direct via gravity (if anyone knows a good replacement please LMK!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[troutbum70 858]

Probably no reason to change from.going direct, you have your shut off valve if needed.

[Pullstart 66,839]

Do you have any hills or slight inclines?  Putt Putt has the same 8 horse and the 502 fuel tank and I haven’t ever had an issue with it running the bowl dry, but I have a couple others that don’t have that luck... not if a hill is introduced anyway.

[Digger 66 3,488]

25 minutes ago, pullstart said:

Do you have any hills or slight inclines?

 

X-2 

[Tach-a-matic 357]

No, no major hills or inclines.  

 

Im more concerned about operating the pump "dry", and with caps on each end of the pump.

 

Will it happily pump away or will it build up pressure?