GT14 won't start, fuel problem..help!

[Machria 78]

Hi guys,

My G14 tractor has been running perfect, and then all of a sudden it just conked out.  Well, I checked/replaced the plug, checked the spark, and fuel filter, all good.  I use nothing but ethanol free fuel in it.  IT turns over just fine, just won't start.  But if I squirt a bit of fuel into the intake it starts and runs for a few seconds until it runs out of that fuel.  So I purchased a new fuel pump on ebay, and installed it.  Still same issue!    What else can I check/do??

 

Thanks in advance for the help....

[Ed Kennell 42,016]

With any fuel supply issue, the first thing I check is to see if I am getting fuel to the carb.

To check this, remove the fuel line going into the carb.     Hold it in a container while someone cranks the engine. 

You should see a strong spurting supply from the fuel pump.  

 

If the supply is good, then your problem is in the carb. 

It may be as simple as removing the needle jets, spraying carb cleaner in the holes and resetting the needle valves.

If that doesn't help, then you need to clean and/or rebuild the carb.

 

If the fuel supply  is not good in the above test, remove the fuel line going into the fuel pump.

If you have a good supply of fuel to the pump and none coming out, replace the pump.

If there is no supply to the pump, replace the fuel lines, the fuel filter, the petcock and grommet in the tank.

 

Notice, we first determine where the problem is BEFORE we replace parts.

 

We will assume there is fuel in the tank and the petcock is open.

It is possible the vent in the tank cap is plugged, but when this is the case, the engine usually starts and runs for some time until the vacuum is created in the tank.

You can check this by simply trying to start it with the cap loosened.

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by Ed Kennell

[gt14rider 947]

Check fuel shutoff, had one on my GT14 vibrate close, did some head scratching on that one

[953 nut 60,057]

Kohler fuel pumps have a hard time pulling a prime, make sure the fuel level in the tank is higher than the pump for the first priming.

[ZXT 2,401]

In addition to all of the excellent advice above, if you do decide to pull the supply line off of the fuel tank, be careful! The tanks are very brittle and the nipple will break off very easily, if it hasn't already in the past. Most tanks get repaired with a petcock valve to fix the issue.

[Machria 78]

5 hours ago, 953 nut said:

Kohler fuel pumps have a hard time pulling a prime, make sure the fuel level in the tank is higher than the pump for the first priming.

 

Hmmmm..    I have about 1/3 to 1/2 full tank.  I'll try topping it off and see if that helps... 

 

As far as the valve, lines and filter, they all seem good.  I have fuel all the way to the inlet of the pump.  I have not tried disconnecting the outlet side though, I will try that.

 

It's hard to reach in there though..... 

[ZXT 2,401]

14 minutes ago, Machria said:

 

Hmmmm..    I have about 1/3 to 1/2 full tank.  I'll try topping it off and see if that helps... 

 

As far as the valve, lines and filter, they all seem good.  I have fuel all the way to the inlet of the pump.  I have not tried disconnecting the outlet side though, I will try that.

 

It's hard to reach in there though..... 

1/2 tank ought to be ample. If you've shot ether into the carb and ran it, it should've picked it up anyways. Definitely disconnect the outlet of the pump. That'll be a huge indicator of where your issue is.

 

Have you ever had the carb apart? Since it won't run at all and you have a new pump, I'm thinking that the needle must be stuck in the carb. Pull it off and pull it apart and spray carb cleaner through the passages. Cheap and easy to do!

[Machria 78]

It will run if I squirt some fuel into the air intake.  But I think that kinda bypasses the "carb", correct?

 

No, never took the carb off this thing, it is a bit "scary" looking to me.  Lots of linkage arms attached to it....  I'm not sure I'd ever get it back together properly! 

[ZXT 2,401]

27 minutes ago, Machria said:

It will run if I squirt some fuel into the air intake.  But I think that kinda bypasses the "carb", correct?

 

No, never took the carb off this thing, it is a bit "scary" looking to me.  Lots of linkage arms attached to it....  I'm not sure I'd ever get it back together properly! 

Spraying fuel into the intake bypasses the entire fuel system essentially.

 

Pulling the carb off is really pretty simple. There are only a few linkage connections on it. Take a couple of pictures of it, and if you still can't figure out how to get it back together, post on here and we'll guide you through it. Pulling the fuel bowl off is only one bolt. Tap around on the bowl once the bolt is out and it should come off without tearing the gasket. Spray every passage you see out and pull the needle out that attaches to the float and see if that is passage is clear. 

 

Before you do any of that though, pull the hose off of the carb and see if it is pumping fuel. 

[Ed Kennell 42,016]

16 minutes ago, Machria said:

It will run if I squirt some fuel into the air intake.  But I think that kinda bypasses the "carb", correct?

   That is correct.  When you squirt fuel in the carb air intake, you are bypassing the carb.

16 minutes ago, Machria said:

 

No, never took the carb off this thing, it is a bit "scary" looking to me.  Lots of linkage arms attached to it....  I'm not sure I'd ever get it back together properly! 

Take several pictures for reassembly reference.

Please remove the fuel line into the carb to be sure you have fuel to the carb...I repeat, this should be the first step to determine what is causing the fuel delivery problem.

Once you verify you have fuel to the carb, we can help you clean the carb.   Again, I would simply remove the needles, clean and reset.

When you installed the new pump, are you sure you got the pump lever on top of the cam?

 

I see Jonah is typing faster than me.

[ZXT 2,401]

2 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

I see Jonah is typing faster than me.

Hey, great minds think alike, right? LOL!

[953 nut 60,057]

7 hours ago, Machria said:

 

No, never took the carb off this thing, it is a bit "scary" looking to me.  Lots of linkage arms attached to it....  I'm not sure I'd ever get it back together properly! 

The carburetor removal on a GT-14 is a PITA for sure. I am impressed that you were able to remove and replace the fuel pump with everything in pace. Your choices are to remove the fuel tank and firewall or remove the belt guard and engine hold down bolts and rotate the engine to get at the carb. Either way it is an all day job so do what @Ed Kennell suggested first.

[Machria 78]

Thanks for the help guys!  I’m going to try removing the bowl and cleaning as suggested, i did take that off a few years ago.  If that doesnt work, I’ll double check my pump install, pretyy sure i got that right though.

 

regarding how I was able to get to the pump, I removed the front end of the tractor, and fuel tank.  That wasn't too bad but did take time to get off and back together.

 

I’ll try this later today or over weekend and report back, thanks again!

[19richie66 17,634]

any condensation/water in the tank?

[Machria 78]

58 minutes ago, 19richie66 said:

any condensation/water in the tank?

 

No, the tank is super clean, no water.  And I use nothing but fresh ethanol free gas in it.  In addition, when I changed out the pump, I emptied the tank and refilled with fresh again....       

[19richie66 17,634]

I have a hard time starting mine when it has sat for a while. It won’t prime up. I pull the air filter and and put my palm over the intake hole. After a while it picks up but I have never had an issue with it dying after it is going. 

[953 nut 60,057]

5 minutes ago, 19richie66 said:

I have a hard time starting mine when it has sat for a while. It won’t prime up. I pull the air filter and and put my palm over the intake hole. After a while it picks up but I have never had an issue with it dying after it is going. 

that is why I went to an electric fuel pump 14.

[Machria 78]

14 hours ago, 19richie66 said:

I have a hard time starting mine when it has sat for a while. It won’t prime up. I pull the air filter and and put my palm over the intake hole. After a while it picks up but I have never had an issue with it dying after it is going. 

 

I've never had a hard time starting it at all, it starts right up after sitting for 6 months.  Sometimes it cranks for a few seconds first, I always assumed it was pulling fuel up since I ran it dry with the shut off valve.  But it always started right up.

 

Tomorrow's project is pull it apart and take a look....   I'll test the outlet side of the pump first....  

[Machria 78]

Update, SUCCESS!!  Thanks for the help guys....

 

I removed the hose from inlet side of the carb, and turned it over, it was squirting a little bit of fuel, but not nearly what I thought it should be.  While doing this, I realized I had changed the fuel lines and filter a few years ago EXCEPT for the little 4" piece that went from the outlet side of the pump to the inlet side of the carb.  Well, that short piece of hose was rock hard on the outside, and soft and gooey on the inside (I assume from the ethanol fuel it was not rated for??).  So, I cut of new piece of 1/4"  for that.  In the meantime I put my air compressor hose into the inlet side of the carb and blasted it with 30 psi of air to clean it all out.  I sprayed some carb cleaner in there and repeated.  I then removed the new fuel pump I had installed and made sure it was installed correctly (as somebody pointed out), and it seemed like it was fine, so I re-installed it.  Connected the fuel lines back up and turned it over, and it started almost immediately and ran for about 20 seconds which I assume was from the carb cleaner leftover AND the little bit of fuel still left in the fuel filter.  So I put the front end back on, connected the fuel tank back up and cranked it over for about 10 seconds and she started up and ran like a champ as usual.  Since I had it apart and my tools near it, I re-wired my winch (I have a 2000lb winch mounted on the ass end) which was not working due to a bad solenoid/switch.  Got that working too.  So she is ready for the snow, BRING IT ON!!!!   

 

Thanks again for the help!

 

Here's a 10 second video of it running, and a pic of the front end off!

https://youtu.be/ul4OogEdg0A

 

10 second video of it running!

 

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Machria

[ZXT 2,401]

8 minutes ago, Machria said:

Update, SUCCESS!!  Thanks for the help guys....

 

I removed the hose from inlet side of the carb, and turned it over, it was squirting a little bit of fuel, but not nearly what I thought it should be.  While doing this, I realized I had changed the fuel lines and filter a few years ago EXCEPT for the little 4" piece that went from the outlet side of the pump to the inlet side of the carb.  Well, that short piece of hose was rock hard on the outside, and soft and gooey on the inside (I assume from the ethanol fuel it was not rated for??).  So, I cut of new piece of 1/4"  for that.  In the meantime I put my air compressor hose into the inlet side of the carb and blasted it with 30 psi of air to clean it all out.  I sprayed some carb cleaner in there and repeated.  I then removed the new fuel pump I had installed and made sure it was installed correctly (as somebody pointed out), and it seemed like it was fine, so I re-installed it.  Connected the fuel lines back up and turned it over, and it started almost immediately and ran for about 20 seconds which I assume was from the carb cleaner leftover AND the little bit of fuel still left in the fuel filter.  So I put the front end back on, connected the fuel tank back up and cranked it over for about 10 seconds and she started up and ran like a champ as usual.  Since I had it apart and my tools near it, I re-wired my winch (I have a 2000lb winch mounted on the ass end) which was not working due to a bad solenoid/switch.  Got that working too.  So she is ready for the snow, BRING IT ON!!!!   

 

Thanks again for the help!

 

Here's a 10 second video of it running, and a pic of the front end off!

https://youtu.be/ul4OogEdg0A

 

 

A collapsed hose will definitely impede the fuel flow. I'm sure ethanol had at least some role in it. 

 

Glad to hear that you're back up and going! And you're even still running the original breakerless ignition! Very cool. Is the push rod hole where the points would normally be drilled? Looks like it might be. You'd think there would be some sort of plate covering it.

[Machria 78]

4 minutes ago, ZXT said:

A collapsed hose will definitely impede the fuel flow. I'm sure ethanol had at least some role in it. 

 

Glad to hear that you're back up and going! And you're even still running the original breakerless ignition! Very cool. Is the push rod hole where the points would normally be drilled? Looks like it might be. You'd think there would be some sort of plate covering it.

 

What language are you talking??    Is that Chinese?       ;)

 

I think everything was "original" when I bought this thing, and when I bought it I had no idea what I had!  I was just looking for a snow blower and a firewood mule and a fellow firewood "hoarder" like myself recommended I check local listings for a "Wheelhorse tractor".  One craigslist search later found one for sale 1.5 miles from my house on a little private farm.  An hour later I was dragging it home behind my truck on a borrowed trailer!   She's been a workhorse ever since!   Sometimes it helps to be lucky! 

[Ed Kennell 42,016]

On ‎10‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 3:51 PM, Ed Kennell said:

With any fuel supply issue, the first thing I check is to see if I am getting fuel to the carb.

To check this, remove the fuel line going into the carb.     Hold it in a container while someone cranks the engine. 

You should see        a strong spurting supply from the fuel pump. 

On ‎10‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 11:26 PM, Ed Kennell said:

 

 

On ‎10‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 11:26 PM, Ed Kennell said:

  

Please remove the fuel line into the carb to be sure you have fuel to the carb...I repeat, this should be the first step to determine what is causing the fuel delivery problem.

 

 

 

      for the update.     We luv it when a plan works.