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Darkitec

No Spark while starting

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Darkitec
Posted (edited)

I have the motor and ignition switch from a 1977 c-160   but I'm having a problem.  I have no spark while the ignition switch is in the start position.  And my ammeter gauge does not appear to have any movement. I do however have spark in the run position.   Somethings is not adding up, and I'm trying to determine if I have a bad switch, or a wiring issue.

 

Assuming a 4 over 1 orientation, looking at the back of the switch. in clock wise order, starting with the single blade,  The diagram I could find indicates the blades should be S I A R B    but if looking at the original wiring on the plug and using the wiring diagram for the 1977 c-120/c-160 tractor, the set up would indicate the blades should be S B A I R.    Does anyone th the correct part number for the 1977 c-160 ignition switch and could you verify the alignment of the blades on the back of the switch. (this switch sadly has no markings on the back of it) or have other suggestions as to what my problem could be?    I'm re-motoring a 1968 Raider 12 that has a big hole in the block.

Edited by Darkitec

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ebinmaine
Posted (edited)

The correct part number for that switches 103990. If you have a (5 blade) switch that is not labeled on the back please throw it away and don't use it. You have no idea if that's one for a magneto tractor or a battery ignition tractor.

 

 

Edited by ebinmaine
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gwest_ca

The SBAIR switch may have 4 key positions. OFF- RUN with accessories - RUN only - START

Part number 101917 replaced by 92-6785

Click on the picture

SIARB is a switch with 3 key positions. OFF- RUN - START

Part # 111216 replaced by 103990.

 

Either switch should work with the wires in the correct locations.

 

Garry

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Darkitec
2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

The correct part number for that switches 103990. If you have a switch that is not labeled on the back please throw it away and don't use it. You have no idea if that's one for a magneto tractor or a battery ignition tractor.

 

 

I have the original magneto ignition switch from the Raider 12, the blade layout is completely different on it.  I'm keeping it so that if I ever find a cheap magneto engine, I can reinstall it on the Raider.  But I understand what you are saying. 

 

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Darkitec
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

The SBAIR switch may have 4 key positions. OFF- RUN with accessories - RUN only - START

Part number 101917 replaced by 92-6785

Click on the picture

SIARB is a switch with 3 key positions. OFF- RUN - START

Part # 111216 replaced by 103990.

 

Either switch should work with the wires in the correct locations.

 

Garry

This info is heaven sent, Thank you very much,

You have cleared up some of my confusion.  I have a 3 Position Switch currently, The original wiring is for the 4 Position Switch.   Now to test the current switch to see if it conforms to the correct operation for 3 position connections. Of If I need to find a replacement switch. 

 

Edited by Darkitec
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gwest_ca

1968 Raider 12 model 1-6231

 

Early production used Kohler K301S-4712b with starter/generator and battery ignition

 

Late production using Kohler K301S-47147b with Bendix starter, 10 amp alternator and magneto ignition with points and condenser Uses (~7572 3-terminal 3-position B-M-S) replaced by 101482 3-terminal 3-position B-M-S ignition switch

 

Odd they made such a drastic change and used the same tractor model number.

Click on the picture

Garry

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Darkitec
Posted (edited)

This is the factory switch that came on Grandfathers 1968 Raider 12 Magneto

ignition. 4ga Power came from the battery to the switch and then from the switch directly to the starter.  That's a lot of amps to run through a single switch for 50 years or so.

 

61966B37-6BBF-4B31-A8B0-B59E98855C44.jpeg

Edited by Darkitec

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953 nut

That is also a lot of potential for problems right behind your gas tank!            :scared-yipes:

You need to switch over to a battery ignition system anyway, why nod add a starter solenoid while you are at it?

5b202f3dea878_batteryignitiontractor-wiring.jpg.a45b0505e2c823cc5019a77d8143fd27.jpg

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gwest_ca

That switch was introduced in 1969 and was a retrofit for the 1968 models.

Garry

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ebinmaine
16 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

You need to switch over to a battery ignition system anyway, why nod add a starter solenoid while you are at it?

I'll second that.

I haven't had great luck with the super cheap ignition switches. They just feel cheesy to me when I get them and last only a year or so... so I've stopped using them.

 

Cole hersee brand, part number 24037 - BX. 

 

For the solenoid you can tell the parts store to look up something for a mid 70s Ford or Jeep. 3 post.

 

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Darkitec
21 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

That is also a lot of potential for problems right behind your gas tank!            :scared-yipes:

You need to switch over to a battery ignition system anyway, why nod add a starter solenoid while you are at it?

 

That's the plan, to swap over all the electrical components from the c160  to the Raider. 

 

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pullstart
On 5/27/2019 at 5:09 PM, ebinmaine said:

 

For the solenoid you can tell the parts store to look up something for a mid 70s Ford or Jeep. 3 post.

 

 

Don’t ya just love when you get a younger or less competent parts counter person and it’s easier to just make up a year make and model than to ask for a fender mounted solenoid?

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ebinmaine
2 minutes ago, pullstart said:

 

Don’t ya just love when you get a younger or less competent parts counter person and it’s easier to just make up a year make and model than to ask for a fender mounted solenoid?

I do fully understand that we all need to learn how to do everything. Begins right at birth. There are a lot of jobs today however that are being made more and more intelligence proof or resistant.

 

when I started as a parts counter person in 1992 we had 11 feet of catalogs on one side of the counter and some others underneath. When I started at a more modern store around 1998, nearly everything was on the semi useless computer system at that point. I can't even imagine what it must be like today.

 

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